Tactics that Work for Everyone

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by Essence, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    EDIT: I decided to pretend to be Lorrelian and be useful, so I'm going to take all of the advice that crops up in this thread and put it here in the OP.

    (More later as I have time to update)

    Original Post:

    Background: I'm enjoying a slow, leisurely run with:

    Shield Bearer
    Master of Arms
    Magical Law
    Battle Geology

    And I noticed that, around floor 6, I started doing an awful lot of archery. Yeah, Archery. With no Craft skills to give me any particular use for ingots, I was converting them all into arrows. With my assortment of item and Krong-based damage bonuses, my arrows were consistently doing about 19-26 damage per hit -- enough that 5 of them would kill off a single mob. Not great odds, but then, I had a lot of arrows -- and I was saving all of the good ones (6-star+) in my Pocket Dimension and just chewing through the plain-ass Copper, Brass, Iron, and Steel bolts (which I still had a total of 150+ of.) When I came across a set of Tinkerer's Goggles, it made the whole thing just slightly more efficient (7 arrows instead of 6), which was nice, but unnecessary.

    It got me thinking -- there's no particular reason why any character couldn't do this (short of not finding a Tinkerer's Kit.) It also got me thinking -- what other kinds of these zero-investment tactics are there in the game that any character should be able to take advantage of?

    Let's make a list. :)
  2. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    I know it's not a tactic for "everyone", but this:

    - If you have enough trap sense and trap affinity to gather traps, don't sell/skol them; instead, when you open a monster zoo (remember, you shall not open doors from the middle tile), just close them and rig the whole room you are in with what you've gathered, and open the monster zoo again after that (it would be even better if you had any sort of teleport ability to get out of there then, but it is not required). Sure, each individual trap only does a few points of damage, but what you gather by the time it usually takes to find a monster zoo should be enough to kill a dozen or so monsters, and that is a dozen or so monsters that will not be trying to eat you.
    - Alternatively, if your trap sense and trap affinity aren't high enough to get these traps, just lure monsters into them. It's risky, but most of the time you will have some sort of placement-control ability that will allow you to push monsters into traps, and every trap that explodes on a monster is a trap that doesn't explode on you; this can even be done with your own summons, they are just a few mana points or a few more turns to walk the cooldown off.
    OmniaNigrum and Turbo164 like this.
  3. Turbo164

    Turbo164 Member

    -For in-combat regen, you're more likely to want big foods like sandwiches and omelets. For out of combat regen, you can cook any Steak (3 to 7 health) on a Barbecue to get a Grilled Steak (10 health), then use the Ingot Grinder to turn it into four Ground Meat (3 health each, total of 12). Takes 4 turns to shove in your mouth instead of 1, but as long as you are not being chewed on it will give you more bang for your beef. Also more Lutefisk if you want to turn them into something less edible.

    -For non-burglars, spending lockpicks on doors early in the game means you have less to use late game (where the XP rewards are higher and the zoos tend to have more "I wish I could slam a door in your face!" monsters) or on chests. If you've already found the zoo on a floor, consider kicking the rest of the doors. When you're able to use those lockpicks you saved to trap Dredmor in a room while you open chests for 10 star goodies, you'll probably be happy you skipped the 24xp :)

    -Always try to have a Spatial Instability Potion (or Root of T'Char if you have a high enough pain tolerance...) in your backpack or Pocket Dimension (or have Mathemagics/Tourism or ECSR Artful Dodger). Losing a character to a wall sucks.

    -Zoos can't spawn in rooms with a Staircase or Portal. Some people like to use this to explore safe retreat routes and collect high level loot, before opening their first door. Portals can be dangerous in their own way (I've appeared in the middle of a perfect 4 zerglingLutefisk Avatar surround before), so it depends on your abilities and desires.

    -Hug the Diggles! They love you so much.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  4. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    That's a very interesting factoid, I never realized that. So it can be to your benefit to sneak down a floor or even a few, poke around in the rooms you enter, not open any doors, get some lewt, and then go back up, eh?

    I'mma haveta try that. :)
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  5. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Well, zoos can't. But you can still be made into a steak by a regular spawn if you aren't prepared, so don't try this at home (dungeon), kids.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  6. Mr_Strange

    Mr_Strange Member

    Anyone can make potions of lively regeneration! I keep those 4 ingredients, along with an Alchemy set, in my Pocket Dimension for all characters.

    Likewise, I keep a tinkering set in my Pocket D, along with all the ingots I might turn into arrows. I wont actually smelt ingots or make arrows for quite a while - in case I find some gear that gives me +:tinkerer:. (Double Ingots!)

    Keep a grinder and a smelter on you at all times - for all characters.

    Not really a "tactic" but... your inventory fills up from the top. So anything you want to keep forever should go on the bottom. That way you just sell from the top until you hit the stuff you are saving.

    If you get +2:trap_level: or more, keep your anti-magic traps. (Assuming you don't have an anti-magic spell). These are worth their weight in gold against Dredmor!

    Softballs. About 70% of my characters horde these for most of the game. Once you start getting big special damage bonuses, they are very effective - I find that on later floors the basic damage for thrown weapons is pretty much always 0. (Especially for wizards) so it's really all about your bonuses. This means Softballs are just as good as any other thrown weapon - so save them, and use the other stuff as you go.

    Early on, you need to make a choice about your food. Will you grind all your cheese, and make cheesy omlettes? Will you try to hoard a couple of big stacks of the best cheeses? Will you hoard grilled cheese sandwiches? These are the questions that matter, because having a big stack of some food late in the game is a great way to make sure you're keeping it handy. 12 Applewood cheese is MUCH better than 2 sandwiches, 2 grilled cheese, 2 cheesy omlettes, and 3 pears.
    OmniaNigrum and Kazeto like this.
  7. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    To that end, while my latest Vampire doesn't care, I always hoard three stacks: Cheesy Omlettes, Grilled Cheese Sandwiches, and Ground Meat. I rarely end up with enough Grilled Cheese for it to matter because the ingredients are relatively rare, but I have a minor obsession with them, so there. I grind all my other cheese and Skol what doesn't go into the Omlettes.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  8. MasterShizzle

    MasterShizzle Member

    - Every character should carry around at least an Ingot Grinder and a Press. Cheesy omelettes are one of the best ways to heal, bar none, and you can end up with over 30 of them in the first couple of floors.

    - Ignore Inconsequentia statues until the rest of the floor is cleared. If you're beefy enough to clear a floor, you're probably going to be decent enough at killing whatever monsters may come up. Exploring the whole floor also guarantees the monster showing up on your minimap, which cuts down on tedious exploration.

    - Stony Wands / Stone Bolts are a great source of crowd control. They can put a monster on lockdown and disrupt other monsters' line of sight. Especially good for melee characters. Try putting a couple walls in front of a door, and monster zoos turn into a one-at-a-time melee banquet.

    - Don't EVER open doors from the middle tile. You never know when you're going to need to close a door again in a hurry, and opening doors from the middle requires an extra turn to close them again. In the case of monster zoos and large mobs, this can be fatal.

    - Carry a crossbow and something to shoot, always. Bolts of Squid, Bolts o' Mass D, etc. are zoo killers for just about every character. You might even get to like it: a Bolt Eruptor is deadly in the hands of a mage.

    - Don't be afraid to switch out your equipment to fit a situation, even in the middle of combat. Opening inventory and switching equipment to and fro doesn't use a turn, so there's no excuse not to.
    OmniaNigrum, SkyMuffin and Kazeto like this.
  9. Zalminen

    Zalminen Member

    I disagree on this. I'm going to be exploring the whole floor in any case so I usually get the Inconsequentia quests as soon as I find the statues.
    If the monsters appear in unexplored area, good - I'm going to run into them sooner or later during normal exploration.

    I hate having to trek through previously explored area several times just because the Inconsequentia enemies decided to appear on the opposite end of the map.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  10. mining

    mining Member

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  11. Rakankrad

    Rakankrad Member

    Why are you low on health when opening a door/taking an Inconsequentia quest? I always try to stay as full as possible before opening any doors..
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  12. mining

    mining Member

    Sometimes you're in a situation where your best bets are to keep moving forward - i.e. vamp or blood magic + psionics/fleshmithing.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  13. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    You only disagree with it because it takes time. But as a tactic that makes it easier to survive, it does work, and I haven't seen anything in your post that would prove the opposite.

    So as of now it appears that you actually "agree" and just don't like doing it.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  14. Zalminen

    Zalminen Member

    Well, the thread was about tactics that work for everyone. It doesn't work for me as I'd probably rather just skip the Inconsequentia quests completely than do them all in the end and waste that much extra time just running around (and probably run into a couple of randomly generated corrupting monsters due to getting careless).

    But then again, I've yet to beat Dredmor on Elvish Easy so this was more of a personal opinion than a serious attempt to debate tactics :D

    Move on, I've enjoyed reading the tips so far!
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  15. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    But that is because you are not using it; thus, it's not that the tactic isn't working for you but rather that it's not there are all.

    And yes, I am moving on (because I hope not to have to explain it again).
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  16. MasterShizzle

    MasterShizzle Member

    The reason I prefer to wait until the end is specifically because I DON'T like running around the dungeon too much. By waiting until the floor is cleared, you can pop a statue, know exactly where the objective is, and head straight to it with no fuss and minimal monster contact.

    In my experience, it's the exact opposite of wasting time. The quests go extremely quickly when you know exactly where to go. Need to find an artifact? No problem, you've explored the whole floor so it's lit up on your minimap. Need to track down the last member of an elite squad? They're up there too. And by that point I've already found the useful teleport glyphs, so zapping around the level is even faster. No guessing where the Eyeball Shrine is at. No wondering if you're going to walk around a corner into a named monster that you're not ready for.

    Again, that's my opinion, the way I do things. But whether or not it's a "better" way, I think we can agree that it's at least a safer way. In the end, it's all about survival. Sorry if you misunderstood. And no offense, either; debating tactics is what the forums are all about. :)
    OmniaNigrum and Kazeto like this.
  17. adelmagne

    adelmagne Member

    i did not know you could use the grills to "Barbecue" stuff, i thought they were just sorta like chests :O
    OmniaNigrum and SkyMuffin like this.
  18. Kyrie

    Kyrie Member

    If you gonna push an "mass pitting mechanism" lever open the south door first and see what it is in there, and THEN pull the lever. That way you don't run the risk of having a mass pitting mechanism monster zoo room with 2+ monster per tile.

    I died so fast when this happened to me.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  19. Shwqa

    Shwqa Member

    Here are some tips that I use:

    Never let your health go below 1/2 . If you at or near that point look for an exit strategy.

    Always carry some sort of invisibility and health item. Turning invisible and healing has saved my life many times

    The little black book is extremely useful for the 2nd floor.

    If you got smithing, always be making tin rings. You can get nice stat rings very early game or put them in a museum for ~250xp.

    Never focus on one type of damage if you can help it, unless you can get it over 50 damage.

    If you take the bankster tree then there is no reason not to clear every vending machine on the first floor.

    Magical law and battle geology skill tree are basically made for killing vlad and dreadmor.
    OmniaNigrum, SkyMuffin and Kazeto like this.
  20. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Member

    This is true for evil chests also! Always open them from a diagonal so that the monster is one space away from you instead of right next to you.

    You can sell wands for full price as long as they have one charge left, so use them. (yes, you are basically scamming Brax)

    Damage over time floor effects like fire and acid hit flying monsters.

    If your trap affinity is high enough to get them, and you have no other wall-destroying ability, you can use Dwarven IEDs. just plop one down and step on it to do the trick. You will always need two, though. The explosion from Caltrop Eruptors will also destroy secret walls. Another method is to cast Handy Wand on yourself.
    OmniaNigrum, Kazeto and Turbo164 like this.