List of balance / bug / general game improving suggestions

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Artifex 28, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    @Desi: Even if you could corrupt enemies (and in a way, you *can*. There are debuffing skills in some trees) it wouldn't be that useful since often times they'll just die soon after.
  2. IanExMachina

    IanExMachina Member

    Honestly I'd be gutted if the 'gambling' mechanic was removed.

    For me the negative consequences/losing is part of the fun.

    I'd rather there were more random things you could interact with in this game.
  3. Bronze

    Bronze Member

    I hope they don't ever consider changing anvils to be positive effect only. Random is a feature. Can't believe players here that have tons of experience playing other roguelikes are pushing for this...

    The dungeon crawl is primarily to see how long you can go and most importantly what you are forced to do to survive. Risk vs reward. If you get a negative anvil effect you have to revise your plans (or reroll) and evaluate whether the weapon is still effective.

    Players need to be more flexible. DO MORE YOGA B4 PLAYING!
  4. Ratha

    Ratha Member

    @Bronze - Your post made me chuckle. I agree, and so did the developers originally since thats why they made the anvil have a chance of negative effect. But thats not to say its guaranteed that they wont change their mind at some point.

    Dredmor is after all meant to be a fairly easy roguelike. Id hate to see aspects of it lose their randomness, but i have to bow to the developers will on that should they choose to change it. Without a doubt i expect that mods will come along that will give the people who want positive krong only options.

    Randomness is what makes rogues rewarding, it is a risk versus reward. If you arnt willing to live with the consequences, simply dont take the risk. But i will say that not every player is a great rogue player, and not every player gets lucky or has the right skills. At its core a roguelike can be pretty challenging. Dredmor was built to make rogues a bit more accessible. Just hope that they dont stray too far into making the game too easy or stripping out all the traditional rogue components.

    Not to self promote, but i would be interested in players who have similar opinions taking a look at a suggestion i made for some time in the future after all the bugs settle; for an optional game mode which makes Dredmor even more rogue-like than it is. Would be interested in what others have to say about such a mode. I tried to think up all the pros and cons that i could but no one took any interest or left any feedback to challenge it, probably because it was a 2-3 minute read.
  5. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    @Bronze "Random is a feature. Can't believe players here that have tons of experience playing other roguelikes are pushing for this..." It is unwise to insult people. Unless that's not what you're doing.

    Look, to Ratha and you, I'll not complain if they leave the anvils as is.
    Also, if anyone is going to reroll a positive result until they get a better one, they are idiots. Plain and simple. :)

    This game is meant to be two things, Random, and fun. IF you remove the fun aspect, it's much worse than removing the random aspect. But that's just me.

    What happens happens. They're already going to nerf Lost in Translation even more than just removing the ability to make overpowered weapons of death.
    They're going to add some uber dangerous lost in your own musuem crap.
    Don't know what it does, but considering how removing the ability to make overpowered stuff is a good enough nerf, I don't know what they're doing.

    If people want to cheat, they will. Not going to stop them. :) Look at Angband/it's varients, I never got past Laguf the Snaga until I discovered Wizard/Debug/Cheating options. :)

    I play games to relax and have fun, I think we should all do the same.
  6. Desi

    Desi Member

    @Bronze Considering that this is a pretty easy roguelike already, I think the change is acceptable. Note that I proposed that we balance an always-positive anvil by having the positive effects predetermined.

    For me it's just like the Horardic Cube: the game is supposed to scale down your stacks of items, but everyone would rather just put them in singly because they don't like being ripped off.
  7. Artifex 28

    Artifex 28 Member

    For me rogue-like games mean permadeath always. That means no cheating. While anvil should give only positive buffs (maybe more variance from minor to major boost) I do like the fact that there are monsters that can curse/ruin your gear. This forces players to play accordingly.

    But yeah, I am just finishing clearing floor 7 with unarmed, berserk, shield mastery, master in arms, blood magic, viking magic and fungi. Fungi is by far the weakest. Only proper thing it does is the spores for mushrooms, but since the buff durations are so limited, I only think the vampiric mushroom is "worth eating mid combat". Invis is ofc great for escapes as well...

    ...although unarmed deals so pathetic damage. I´m glad my block is over 80. :p
  8. Bronze

    Bronze Member

    @DavidB1111 "It is unwise to insult people. Unless that's not what you're doing."

    Not trying to be insulting at all. Just stating my opinion. Your absolutely correct this game is supposed to be two things random and fun. To me the random is fun. To others not so much I guess. It just seems to me some people (not finger pointing in any way) want to take the random out of it. FUN is subjective and everyone's got an opinion about what is and isn't. I think it is fair that both sides get represented in these threads and that the devs are tasked with finding the happy ground between. Sucks to be them! hehe.

    @Ratha will check your thread, you and I seem to be of like mind regarding current state of random gameplay. I think your hardcore roguelike optional settings are intriguing and would allow the devs to cater to both crowds. A larger audience is a win for them.

    @Desi fairplay of opinions is always welcome but I'm sticking to my guns. In most roguelikes there are gods that play a hand in your adventures, pleasing and displeasing it is a long standing tradition and I would hate to see it changed up.
  9. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    @Bronze Fair enough. Just wanted to make sure you weren't insulting me. :)
    Random can be fun, but sometimes Random can screw your game up in such a way that if someone tells you random is fun, they would punch you in the face. :)
    Just saying. I love randomness. I do, I am the incarnation of random trivia knowledge. :)
  10. Bronze

    Bronze Member

    @DavidB1111 I knew it would draw you out and promote discussion, RANDOM perceived slights are a wonderful thing. :)

    Don't punch me in the face.
  11. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    @Bronze Don't worry, I won't. But Captain Falcon here will. "Falcon punch!"
    And I wasn't really saying I would punch you in the face, I'm talking about other people with really bad luck.
  12. Bronze

    Bronze Member

    I know exactly what you meant. Believe it or not the written word sometimes does come across as intended. Even on the EnterNets ;) HAAAADOOOOOKEEEEEN!
  13. J-Factor

    J-Factor Member

    Having only positive enchantments would be ridiculous. Anvils of Krong aren't rare - there's generally two on every level. If you found one reasonable weapon early it could carry you through the whole game on enchantments alone. By the end <i>everyone</i> would have a crazy double scotch-taped character sheet.

    I'd rather just have ways to purify negative enchantments. For example, dipping a cursed weapon in a wishing well could remove one negative enchantment. Or something with a Potion of Purity. Maybe let Smithing 'beat the negative out of it'.
  14. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Now wait just a moment, show me how the positive stats from the Anvil are going to make a God item? no, really, most of the time I get positive stats, they're barely useful.
    One steathiness or 1 sagity is not going to break the game, even if I keep my weapon with it through the entire game, a complete impossibility, I should add.

    I seriously doubt with a maximum of two enchants a level and 10 levels, with 20 possible enchants, or 40 with Archaelogy is going to break the game that badly.
    Unless you steal Doul's possible sword from the shop on the first floor. :) Then, yes, everyone up to Dredmor would be a joke. With good enchants.

    But yeah, the enchants I get, on weapons, not going to break the game unless I put them all on Doul's possible sword.
  15. 123stw

    123stw Member

    All 40 of them are counter rate....... Lol but what are the chances of that.

    Personally I want to see the anvil displease chance rise to 50%, but increase bonus/penalty per win/lose. So when people get good stats once they can be happy and won't keep trying to stack onto the same item for more. When they lose it has to be bad enough to warrant a toss. As of now anvil doesn't even feel like a gamble, and everyone is "planning their anvil" and "picking archeology on every characters". And I don't think that's what it should be.

    I also support no way of removing negatives. Because it still means planned anvil but on average a bit less bonus stats. It's not a gamble if you can only win or stay just as well off.
  16. Desi

    Desi Member

    @J-Factor Dipping things in potions is a hallowed roguelike tradition. Dipping a weapon into a Potion of Purity to remove a single, random point from one of the negative aspects of a weapon would be very nice indeed, and give a way to negate corruption. I like!
  17. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    "I'd rather just have ways to purify negative enchantments. For example, dipping a cursed weapon in a wishing well could remove one negative enchantment. Or something with a Potion of Purity. Maybe let Smithing 'beat the negative out of it'." - I feel the same way, but people seem to be adamant on wanting "The Translation is All Wrong" to be the main ability to do this even though dipping would probably be better.

    @DavidB1111: While one can argue that it doesn't break the game, if there were no negative enchantments then the anvils would just be free stats that are freely given to you with no cost or repercussions. There are no skill points needed, no crafting levels needed, no need to use a certain item other than the weapon you're using.

    The only way I would accept no negatives from Krong anvils is if you actually had to earn it. Maybe by training Smithing. People complain about lack of late game power for the ability anyway, and this would help with that.
  18. 123stw

    123stw Member

    If you can easily get rid of the negatives, then it's the same as no negative at all.

    Let's say 1 in 4 is displease and u can get just get rid of it, then it's just an average of 15 positives (30 with archeology) that you can plan for and manipulate. It needs to be either permanent or very difficult to remove (by that I mean serious skill point investments, such as a new skill on Archeology level 5 or Smithing level 5) to be a penalty.
  19. jhffmn

    jhffmn Member

    On going rogue:

    1) Add a hunger clock (helps deal with gear scumming)

    For the rest of the game

    2) Add physical ranged damage dealers that deal reasonable damage.
  20. Ratha

    Ratha Member

    My main character, a full on rogue warrior, got -3 trap affinity from krong on his main weapon. Granted his main weapon wasnt incredibly special, but i hadnt needed anything better. For that character who was focused on disarming traps, that was fairly bad, but i didnt feel cheated by the game in the slightest when that happened. I gambled and lost and was okay with that, cause i accepted that it might go bad in the first place.