Level 1 too hard? Suggest 1 skill point at start.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by 123stw, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. 123stw

    123stw Member

    Edit: I am not asking for hot tips. I beaten the game on Rogue multiple times. I am saying current the first 125 exp with a bad roll is by far harder than the rest of the game. I have no problem with how it is now if the rest of the game remains just as hard, but it doesn't. It only gets progressively easier all the way (yes even dungeon 10). Making a game progressively harder allows people who don't have years of experience in this particular gene to get a feel of how this game works.

    Can someone explain to me why the first 125 exp should be so much harder than dungeon 10?
  2. Tahrfarce

    Tahrfarce Member

    I always found the first level to be relatively easy with any build, just because trap dancing is so effective early on. (Especially on Going Rogue, where there's seemingly so many more of them.)

    That said, perhaps make it scaled with difficulty? (1-2/1/0, EE/DM/GR) Because I know you're going to get rogue-like purists in here who'll be purely against the slightest attempt to make the game easier or more accessible. You preserve the initial difficulty of the game for purists while still making it more accessible to players new to the genre.

    Edit: And well, if new players hit Going Rogue their first playthrough, that's their own fault. :D
  3. DerpTyrant

    DerpTyrant Member

    I've never considered level 1 to be hard at all. If you know a tiny bit about this game, no matter how crappy your skill set is, you will have no problems. Use any gear at your disposal, all your spells you might have, pull mobs into traps, etc.
    We're talking about Going Rogue yes? Be cause if not, you shouldn't be playing this game ;)
  4. pmuschi

    pmuschi Member

    I don't think the first level is too hard. Maybe you've just had a run of bad luck?
  5. Bhruic

    Bhruic Member

    It really depends on the skills you select. As long as you have a decent weapon or spell, you can generally do ok. I did, however, make a build that started off with nothing (well, I had a robe). I did 0 damage with a kick, and I had no offensive or buff spells. I spent a lot of time running away from things until I finally found a weapon. So yeah, some builds are more difficult than others, but that's part of the fun!
  6. pauyasfyla

    pauyasfyla Member

    I had a couple of bad runs where Deths and Diggles spawned in the starting room. Hi-larious. Other than that, the first part of the game is usually the hardest part of most RPGs.
  7. I think the start of the game may be luck-dependent, but if you die it really is no big deal, because you can just start over again and you had not put much playtime in your character yet.
  8. Laml

    Laml Member

    It's the same thing with pretty much all the roguelikes. I mean, look at Rogue: At the start, you're very week, and if you get unlucky you can die when fighting a single hobgoblin, even if you started the fight with full health. But after killing a few foes, you level up and quickly get strong enough to OHKO most of the enemies and have no problem at all until floor 5.

    Here, it's the same thing: The very beginning can be a bit tricky, but once you level up (after ~3-5 minutes, so it's not that bad to start over if you die) the first floor will be so easy that it's boring.
    The first level is part of the challenge, and it's something that you'll see in every roguelike (or at least in the ones I've played). If this part of the game get easier, at least 1/4 of the people playing the game won't be pleased :/
  9. Retroid

    Retroid Member

    Go for the viking skill, good for pretty much any class; early on activate the spell you get everytime you run into a couple of enemies and then it's just about resource management.
  10. The way I see it the game's difficulty at the moment (with a proper build) is that of an inverted bell curve, what I mean by this is that the start and the end are the hardest and the middle is the easiest.
  11. Patchumz

    Patchumz Member

    I don't think skills are the problem. The problem mostly lies in the horrible starter equipment. We should get a more full set, or one better optimized for our build, so we don't die horribly.
  12. pauyasfyla

    pauyasfyla Member

    @patch Agreed. Rogues with full light armor, Wizards with decent magic boost (orb?) equipment, and Warrior with full heavy armor.
  13. jhffmn

    jhffmn Member

    I think roguelikes should be at their hardest on the first level. I think on going rogue I generally have a 80% chance of surviving the first couple rooms (higher or lower depending on what my build is) and after that I'll hit level 2 every time. I find level 1 to be fine. In fact, this game is most fun at level 1. On level one a early piece of armor with +2 damage reduction or wand or throwing item makes a HUGE difference. About half way through level 1 it stops mattering =/.

    For example, on my last game I found a leather jacket with +2 damage reduction and some throwing bombs in the first couple rooms. Those items made a huge difference. Outside of the first level wands and throwing items have no real use to me.

    But I think the OP's judgement is clouded by playing builds that are end-game viable because I think some skill sets don't scale very well and are extremely difficult to use on the last level.

    If the first level gets easier I would be very unhappy. Trying to survive with very limited resources at the beginning is the most fun I have in this game.

    Also, no room should be impossible as no enemy moves faster than you and enemies tend to get bored and wander off after a chase. Also if you take fungal arts the mushrooms at start should let you handle any starting room. In the worst case you open the door to a couple of level 2 enemies and run around in circles until you can lock them up behind a door. I'm sure it's possible to honestly face no win situations at the first room, but those are probably exceedingly rare.

    Also, if you find the game too hard adjust the difficulty. Some of us want the game on going rogue to be much harder. There are two other difficulties if you want to see the game easier.
  14. Tayrtahn

    Tayrtahn Member

    But experiencing that first "Oh god what just happened" death is an important part of the roguelike experience!

    It only takes a moment to try again anyway.
  15. 123stw

    123stw Member

    I think we are all seeing the same thing and just have different opinions on it.

    Obviously people who are still posting here can get the first 125 exp in the difficulty they play. I am just questioning why it should be so much harder than dungeon 10.
  16. mellow

    mellow Member

    I just find a gargoyle arrow trap, and then lure enemies to repeatedly step on it.
  17. Ratha

    Ratha Member

    I enjoy the first few minutes of the game honestly, probably more than the rest of the game. Yeah sometimes you or your build can get unlucky, but i think thats what keeps it fresh. Managing your resources is much more important in the early game, towards the middle you barely -need- to manage anything. That might change in the later levels. Ive gotten bored of most of my characters and started new ones when the middle levels of 5-6-7 or so simply got too easy, starting over with a harder build.

    If my character does not die within the first 5-10 rooms of a level, he usually makes it past that level with relative ease. I would love to see the game get progressively more difficult instead of progressively easier, but attaining that kind of balance in a game like this without throwing cheap tricks at the players simply isnt easy. Especially when you have to keep that there are 3 different difficulties which are affected by balance changes.

    I do see what the original poster is saying, but would argue that if the beginning is consistently too hard, perhaps you would be better served by switching to a different difficulty or trying different tactics/skills? Currently not all skills are are a viable combination without some luck involved. Im not saying that the beginning on going rogue isnt difficult at times, it is, but i think thats possibly the point.
  18. 123stw

    123stw Member


    Yes, that first 5 to 10 rooms are precisely what I am talking about, before you pick up an armor or a wand or something similar. First 3 rooms you open happens to come with 4 bats and a zombie? 3 green and 1 red diggles? Without picking up something in between? That's kinna it for many builds.

    I am not saying "too hard" as in "I myself cannot beat it", but "too hard" as in "way harder than the rest of the game unless you specifically pick a skill for it". Lowering the difficulty is just silly because the rest of the game is already too easy. "Pick viking, astrology, or fungal" isn't very helpful for most beginners either. They might not "want" to pick a whole tree just for the first 5 minutes of the game, then let it rot for the rest (especially fungal, you can't expect that from everyone).

    Of course if you just run into blue blobs or regular diggles, then yeah you don't really die.
  19. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    I think this really goes back to that "first level is too luck based" argument that came up awhile back. If you don't get screwed over immediately then the difficulty of floor 1 is perfectly fine and doesn't facilitate granting a free skill point.