I shut a door on 'im

Discussion in 'Realm of the Diggle Gods' started by King Yoshi, May 6, 2012.

  1. King Yoshi

    King Yoshi Member

    So I FINALLY made it down to Dredmor for the first time, level 15, and pretty sure of myself that I could take him in my (now thouroughly corrupted, darn monsters!) awesome gear. I found him (although he still managed to surprise me), and I lobbed a few BMDs and HHGs, and a few flaming arrows for good measure.

    Unfortunately, he quickly proved me wrong otherwise, I'm glad I had Move in Mysterious Ways or else I'd have been done for.

    I warped out of the room with just a sliver of health, and shut the door so I could heal (as doors are apparently the ultimate bane of Liches). As I loaded up on food to heal, I was almost at full HP, when...

    I just won.

    He wasn't down that far when I ran (maybe a third at best), and I heard he had a good 1k HP, so it seems pretty silly he could have died in a good 50 turns of healing.

    Not sure what caused it, either. It was a rather large room he was in, and he had warped out of the fire the projectiles left behind,

    It's kind o disappointing, I was hoping to get a good run on him (or at least die valiantly)

    NOTE: I'm running .10, too, and I'm aware he's immune to DOTs, how could he have died?
  2. mining

    mining Member

    Probably burnt to death.
  3. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Burn and Bleed effects aren't technically not DoTs, and each sucks away 1% of total health every turn -- so if you managed to inflict both on him, it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll die in 50 turns of healing. Especially when he's off-screen and thus not technically doing anything except moving around...aimlessly.
  4. King Yoshi

    King Yoshi Member

    Those effects don't wear off offscreen either?

    That's rather.... dissapointing.
  5. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Member

    I sort of did this today. Fought Dredmor for a few turns, lost a ton of health...closed a door and healed.

    I was all scared because people had told me about the "New Dredmor (TM)" and his scary abilities, but the fact that he can't open a door makes him much less scary.

    Edit: if this is ever changed...can we have a door throwing item? And some kind of flavor text about how it was used to destroy the previous Dredmor.
    Mikesteam1234 likes this.
  6. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Why can he not heal? Why can he not remove the bleeding and put out the flames? This seems retarded.
    Exile likes this.
  7. NaiDriftlin

    NaiDriftlin Member

    Following laws of the undead, he can't heal himself unless he inflicts severe harm to another, preferably living, creature.

    Also, laws of the undead state that any undead creatures set ablaze will do nothing to stop it.

    Truthfully? It's probably not put into his AI, if he has any unique AI at all.
  8. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Giving him access to the potion of purity spell (don't remember the name) could be interesting but I don't even know if it works on monsters, and he would need special AI or else it would be random in his palette of 20 spells.
  9. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Because that's the rules of the game. No monsters heal. No monsters cancel bleeding or burning. No monsters open doors. It didn't bother you on the other 14 floors of the dungeon, why is it a big deal that Dredmor works the same way? Unleashing a DoT or AoE and shutting a door (or summoning a wall) is already a viable strategy to hordes and zoos, so it's not terribly shocking that it works on the final boss as well.

    That said, I suppose the BMD effect could be added to Dredmor's spell list, far down at the bottom, so he only casts it once in a blue moon. Then you couldn't rely on a little fire and a door to win.

    Ultimately though, this is a game with comboliscious skills and random loot power-ups. No matter what the Devs do, there's always a chance that the stars will align to make a particular win feel "cheap". If a slog through 14 and a half levels of trap-riddled monster-infested dungeon can ever be said to feel easy, that is.
  10. NaiDriftlin

    NaiDriftlin Member

    I think the core of the matter is that people are lead to believe that things on newer levels are harder than things on levels above it. When they face their first monster zoo, they say "Holy cow, I managed to survive that! I can't imagine what lies next for me!"

    Then, when they get into the lower levels, they're given what they expected(and more importantly, what they wanted.). Monsters are stronger. But, they're just as easy to outsmart even with their superior numbers.. This gives them the edge of intelligence, but everything is still harder over all because they're simply overwhelmed with numbers.

    The last monster zoo you face before Dredmor is a longer and harder fight than Dredmor is himself. When they get to Dredmor, a harder to kill, easier to die to monster: He's still by himself(Or with a small number of other generic enemies) and not much harder to fight. Sure, he has some dots that will tear you inside out, but it's nothing that you haven't faced before somewhere else.

    They may feel that it is cheap to kill him that way, but the worse part that players are feeling is that they feel cheated by their own expectations: That Dredmor himself has been cheated out of the epic fight they think he deserves.

    To put it into a simpler frame of thinking: You've waited your entire life to go to Disney World, ever since you were 5 years (level 1) and watched a Mickey Mouse cartoon. You do good deeds every day for 5 years(15 floors), such as helping your parents with things, washing dishes, helping prepare food/setting the table, mowing the grass, babysitting your kid-sister. On your 10th birthday, your parents take you to Central Park. You might have a good time, and you might run around, but it isn't Disney World. It's Grand Central Park. It's still nice, but you're still disappointed that you didn't get to see a guy dressed up as Goofy punch Mickey in the face.
    OmniNegro and r_b_bergstrom like this.
  11. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    I don't know how you could have had a burn or bleed last on dredmor that long. Kind of odd.
    Oh well.
  12. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Why bother to make Dremor immune to most DoTs when bleeding and fire still are certain doom for him? Fireball and fleshbore are not hard to find. Even a melee focused build can manage that with ease and then hide while Dredmor melts into a puddle of piss and tears.

    Dredmor was recently buffed quite a bit since he was too weak. Guess what? He still is. He hits harder and has more health by far, but he still dies to the same old cheese.
    Exile likes this.
  13. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Yeah, I'm trying to figure that out as well. I don't think Dredmorpedia ever lists a duration on burn or bleed effects.

    I wonder if maybe the ol' lich just stepped on some sort of major trap while wandering about, without the original poster noticing. It'd be funny if we were all debating the cheesiness of burn and bleed when it was actually just one of Nicholas' uber-traps that did him in.
  14. NaiDriftlin

    NaiDriftlin Member

    Doesn't Dredmor have over a hundred sneakiness?
  15. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Irrelevant. You can have over 200 :sneakiness: and still set off traps. Edit and item and try for yourself if you care to see.
    Exile likes this.
  16. Null

    Null Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I've never triggered a trap with >100 sneak.
  17. NaiDriftlin

    NaiDriftlin Member

    It should be relevant. If it's not, it's a bug or an unknown intended mechanic.

    Unless there is a hard cap on it that we are not aware of, or if there is some mechanic unlike the 1=1% that other attributes function off of, he shouldn't be setting off traps with 100+ sneakiness.
  18. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Then take my challenge and make an item give you >100 and walk over any trap over and over again. You will set it off eventually.
    Exile likes this.
  19. NaiDriftlin

    NaiDriftlin Member

    We don't need 'challenges.' We're adults here. Do you know if someone has reported this as a bug, or if it has been confirmed as an intended mechanic?
  20. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Why will you people keep challenging me and basically calling me a liar while not bothering to check for yourself. I have reported this in other threads too.

    Are my "Challenges" offensive simply because you do not like what it implies? You are saying I am not acting like an adult. So be an adult and try and see it for yourself. This has been the case since at least 1.09RevB or so.
    Exile likes this.