Any chance we can have Deadshot back?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Stryke, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. Stryke

    Stryke Member

    I know it was originally ditched as the devs thought it was boring but that unearned achievement is sitting there and taunting me. Sure I could edit it back in but I'd far prefer to see a revamped version than do that.

    It'd seem to be a good place for some stances like in the new Dagger and Polearm skill trees.
  2. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    How about we solve this another way? Give everyone the worthless achievement. Problem solved. No need to reinvent the wheel with this solution.

    And if you disagree, feel free to spend some time thinking up and documenting what skills you want it to have and writing the code for those skills and even balancing them so they are neither worthless, nor overpowered.
  3. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    The problem with "Deadshot" is that they don't have any ideas for making it unique they would deem solid enough. If you present something they could use for it that would make it stand out (as in "be unique and useful", and not "be overpowered in something"), then I reckon they would be able to put it in. But really, the lack of ideas comes from the fact that it was supposed to be an "accuracy increasing skill", and yet perception does fulfil this function instead.

    If anything, I guess we could make it into a "sharpshootery" skill tree that would confer most, but not all, bonuses to ranged attacks, in form of procs, but unless someone has a solid idea for 6~7 tiers, yeah...
  4. j3st3r

    j3st3r Member

    Not to mention Big Game Hunter ;)

    Besides all the stuff in Deadshot was pushed into Perception and Archery (or at least that's what they say)
  5. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    What Deadshot really needs is a shoot=1 tag like the attack=1 tag, so it could be a tree of special attacks that take place while you shoot a crossbow, thus letting it function kind of like a secondary weapons tree. Better yet, it could be like Berserk Rage for crossbows, with triggeronshot (or whatever it is) buffs that make you more deadly at range.
  6. Rawk Hawk

    Rawk Hawk Member

    It could have a skill that for 25 turns or so makes your crossbow work like thrown weapons. AKA shoot at anything you can see and not the first in front.

    You could have each level up allow you to shoot at a different section of the enemy. like you could shoot at
    "arms" to lower damage
    "head" to stun
    "legs" to slow (evasiveness and dodge reduction)
    "torso" push back
    "narrow miss" Shoot between an enemy to hit one behind it and scare them with how good of a shot you are (I guess fear the enemy in front and do a normal damage shot to the one behind it)

    Start you off with a desperado hat + poncho with a middle name
  7. Turbo164

    Turbo164 Member

    Either Deadshot or Archery needs "Adventuring Career Ender" that immobilizes.
    Stoz likes this.
  8. klaymen_sk

    klaymen_sk Member

    If they remake the old weapon skills to put tem in line with the new ones, then there will be no way to inflict bleeding out and....uh...deep wound? Add a few other related debuffs (cripple, mutilate, severed limb, a chance to add bonus damage to simulate an accurate hit, whatever) and you'll have a skill tree helping melee characters.

    Just a thought.
  9. Stryke

    Stryke Member

    Ok, how about something like;

    Level 1 skill : Triggered buff for a number of shots for a crossbow to act like thrown weapons.
    Level 2 skill : Leg shot - Short immobilise and a small amount of damage.
    Level 3 skill : Stance - A number of buffs at the cost of survivability, along with a chance of a damage proc.
    Level 4 skill : Some kind of multishot, I'm not sure how this could be implemented but it would be cool for one bolt or thrown item could be multiplied to hit several targets instead of one?
    Level 5 skill : Assassination ability - single target takes massive damage scaled to caddishness, big aoe fear debuff around target.

    Add some dodge reduction and caddishness scattered through out the tree and it should be a fairly reasonable short skill line.
    OmniNegro likes this.
  10. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Xbow to act like thrown? Easy to code, but blatantly overpowered. The problem is that thrown gets your melee damage modifier. Crossbow does not. That is why high level crossbows and bolts do more damage by default than thrown weapons.

    The level two skill reduces or even nullifies the value of the lockdown skill burglary gives you.

    Three four and five I can think of no real problems besides balancing them out. But do you really want the skill back, or just the achievement? (Not trying to be an ass, but it would be easiest to just give that to everyone next patch and be done with it if you just want the achievement.)

    But clearly you are thinking. That is better than I expect from many people. :D
  11. Stryke

    Stryke Member

    Call me a completionist but yeah I'd like the tree back.

    Does Skartha's roots remove the need for Lockdown? Not really as they're different enough skills. I'd see the level 2 skill as a much shorter hold than Lockdown but with a bit of scaling damage to make up for it, put it on a cooldown and I can see situations where it'd be very handy to have both.

    Fair point on the first skill though, would a long cooldown fragile buff for only a couple of shots or only just one be more balanced so you can only use it rarely?
    OmniNegro likes this.
  12. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    By late game I am not certain the first skill can be fixed by any means if it allows the :melee_power: to be added. At current you can easily get a crossbow with no Krong/artifact levels that does 24 :dmg_piercing: by itself even if your bolts themself did none. And if you add a decent bolt or two, you could be talking about doing nearly 200 damage by the end of the game in a single shot. I think the first skill either needs changed altogether to add a flat amount of damage to bolts fired for several turns. That would be easiest. What do you think about the damage amount? Too much turns the early game into easy mode, but too little and the first skill is trivial and will not be used past the first few levels.

    Good point about the second skill. I suppose there are already a half dozen or more ways to paralyze enemies. What is one more?

    We probably need to get some others to come read this. That may help us find what would work so we can present your case to the devs with a well though plan.

    I hope Kazeto is still watching this thread. If so, any ideas Kazeto?
  13. Dynamod

    Dynamod Member

    Deadshot could agressively increase critical and accuracy... the assasin tree doesn't give nearly enough critical as it is. Perhaps the capstone skill would be one that would let you personally select a tile to hit, even if it's not within line of sight? perhaps a skill that gives your ranged attacks penetration.
  14. Null

    Null Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I'm opposed to giving Deadshot anything that applies specifically to crossbows on the sheer basis that it shouldn't be a second crossbow tree. It's fine if it allows something like arrows and softballs to the knee. That would be useful, even as a proc.Just a very short root. Definitely needs :crit: though. It can be like Assassination for range.
    Kazeto and OmniNegro like this.
  15. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    Would it be possible to have an activate-able skill in that makes the next bow shot do a bunch of extra damage?
    Ideally this would work like a fell truffle or a midas potion, but only work with a crossbow/thrown weapon and instead of having 5 (or 12) charges. Just have one really big charge.
  16. Maze1125

    Maze1125 Member

    Don't forget the eyes, we need to able to aim for an enemy's eyes.
  17. klaymen_sk

    klaymen_sk Member

    Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes!
    -Minsc (Baldur's Gate)
  18. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Why, yes. I just was at work when the whole discussion took place.

    Of course, the basis of the whole problem lies somewhere else - we want to make that skill tree interesting, and yet if we take a quick look at activated abilities we get from "Thrown Weaponry" and "Archery" skill trees, we can see a "make these more interesting later" comment. Ugh, no help here, so we'll have to create the whole thing from scratch, and try both to make it interesting enough and not to make it more interesting than both of the aforementioned skill trees.

    So, behold my insanity (which is not really all that bad, I hope), in form on my idea for the "Deadshot" skill tree:
    • Tier 0 - Sometimes it Hits: passively gives +1 :edr:, +1 :crit:.
    • Tier 1 - Focus on Target: activated ability (cooldown: 12), when used grants a buff "Focused on Target" for 1 attack that gives the following stats: +12 :edr:, +4 :crit:, -2 :sight:, -2 :trap_sense:.
    • Tier 2 - Exactly What I Aimed At: passively gives +1 :crit:, activated ability (cooldown: 22), when used attacks one target in sight, dealing [6 + 0,12 :edr:] :dmg_piercing: damage after one turn.
    • Tier 3 - (In)Human Pincushion Maker: passively gives +1 :edr:, gives a 10% chance to put a "(In)Human Pincushion" debuff (lasts 12 turns, stacks up to 3 times, gives the following stats: -1 :resist_crushing:, -1 :resist_slashing:, -1 :resist_piercing:), deal additional [1,5 + 0,05 :crit:] :dmg_piercing: damage and lock it in place for 2 turns whenever you hit something with either crossbows or thrown weapons.
    • Tier 4 - See Weakness: passively gives +1 :crit:, activated ability (cooldown: 38), when used puts a debuff "Aim For the Eyes" that lasts for 24 turns on the target that gives it the following stats: -4 :dodge:, -8 :block:, -1 :resist_crushing:, -1 :resist_slashing:, -1:resist_piercing:.
    • Tier 5 - Blind Assassin: passively gives +1 :edr:, gives a 10% chance to proc "Focused on Target" whenever you attack something.
    • Tier 6 - Some Sort of Combat Cleric: activated ability (cooldown: 96), when used grants you a buff "Cleric Battle Dance" that lasts until you move or for 3 hits (whichever happens first) and gives you the following stats: +8 :edr:, +12 :crit:, +4 :counter:, +8 :dodge:, +2 :sight:.
    That being said, feel free to discuss the hell that I just posted. I reckon it's pretty unbalanced (well, duh, that's to be expected if I pulled the values out of thin air), so just concentrate on whether you like that in general, and we can get to balancing it if you do.
    Vitellozzo and OmniNegro like this.
  19. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    Exactly how would this work:

    Tier 1 - Focus on Target: activated ability (cooldown: 12), when used grants a buff "Focused on Target" for 1 attack that gives the following stats: +12 :edr:, +4 :crit:, -2 :sight:, -2 :trap_sense:.

    When you are using it for your next ranged attack and you have some monster at the end of your vision tree, you activate it and suddenly you cannot even use the ability to shoot the target you are focused on.

    Other than that. how come you are giving only .05:crit: for bonus? that would add at most only 2-3 damage for most of the game.
  20. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Get "Perception"? Or some sight-enhancing gear? After you get a big enough sight bonus, losing two points doesn't do any harm to you because your character can see further than you can (unless your screen resolution is really high).
    Or just don't use it to snipe targets that are on the border of your sight, but to attack something that came too close because you can't hit it.
    And either way, the way it is, it would work with melee attacks too.

    I do recognise that it can feel weird, though. Which is why I'm waiting for more opinions.

    As I said, I pulled the values out of thin air. And when I make stuff, I have an incorrigible tendency to make things underpowered at first because I'm worried about making it too strong. Some of these I change before posting, and some I leave because I know I won't be able to find any satisfactory values.
    OmniNegro likes this.