What is the status on Dynamics ?

Discussion in 'Clockwork Empires General' started by Kamisma, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Kamisma

    Kamisma Member

    The promise of a steampunk lovecraftian city builder / eldritch horror simulator is what really made me follow closely the development of this game game ever since it was announced and participate in early access as early as i could.

    Let me say that i'm so far Very Pleased with how the game has been developped and updated so far and i really enjoy playing every now on then to see the new stuff being added every month or so. Please don't take any of what i could say as criticism. It's merely curiosity about the Future Plans.

    So one year and a few months after the launch of early access, the game is still quite looking like a prototype and it's hard to see how far from the full game it is.*
    From my understanding, and what i hope is happening is that Gaslamp can't really move forward until the core systems of the game are working properly and that's why the game kinda feels barebone and lots of stuff is on hold or stuck in the pipelines until game feature X or Y works properly.

    All that being said one of the thing that interested me the most in the announcement was this part :

    Mostly because this is something that has not been done in video games before (to my knowledge). Although the recent Big Pharma and Infinifactory did something a bit similar but in a more "puzzle game" kind of way.

    Obscure diagram from an early development diary :

    (Awesome, isn't it ? I realize though this last diagram must be Severely Outdated, and thus its usage be Forbidden by the Ministry of Production and Plumbing** )

    I kinda forgot about this feature lately although i noticed the game was still missing Something Important.

    Then i read the last development progress report and was pleased to see it was mentionned in the upcoming features part :

    So at least it's still in the plan ( yay ! )

    But now i can't help but wonder how it will turn out ? Is this part of the game already designed and mostly awaiting implementation (blocked in some pipeline of the development process) ? Is it still just a vague-ish idea based on outdated design like the diagram above ?
    I don't think any dev diary touched this part of the game since early access (i can be wrong ofc) so i really want to know how it will turn out and fit into the game we have now.

    Also from the initial announcement the "Megaprojects" were mentionned, and i think nowhere else they have been mentionned after that. I'm kinda curious about them too but i can understand if you want to keep this part secret until later in the development :p

    * I survived KSP alpha/early access without getting bored so i know that patience is a virtue
    ** Although i really like the idea of having and input/output stockpile attached to a workshop
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
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  2. ShadowTani

    ShadowTani Member

    Yeah, this old diagram is pure gold and was actually what made me want linked stockpiles (which I mentioned on steam earlier today before you posted this, such coincidence, lol). Being able to link stockpiles as output or input stockpiles for the various workshops would make things so much smoother than the mess happening now. But I digress. I'm very pleased if the ideas around pipe systems and such hasn't been thrown away and I'm definitively looking forward to seeing what these megaprojects are about as well.
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    MOOMANiBE Ah, those were the days. Staff Member

    This diagram was, for better or worse, written up prior to when we had building interiors - or any functional gameplay at all - the earliest plans for the game had buildings that had no insides, thus the necessity of exterior attached stockpiles and fully exterior modules. So take that image with a serious grain of salt!

    That said, dynamics are still in the works. The design has been done conceptually speaking, and we have a lot of art assets ready to go, but there's lots of "rubber hits the road" details to work out. We're coming closer to when it's Time To Implement them, but I can't give you any exact timeline as this stuff tends to depend on a lot of factors (programmer time being a big one).

    (A quick note: conveyors are not currently planned. That design doc is really old.)
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  4. Kamisma

    Kamisma Member

    Yeah i figured most of it was outdated but I hope the basic concept with the pipes linked to modules in workshops still is kinda the plan. I'm not that concerned with a timeline as i'm a Patient Man, but more about how did the concept change from that old diagram to the current concept (that is probably very Secret and Ominous)

    My take on it :

    • The conveyors are out. Which is sad but logical at the same time.
    • The stockpiles in and out are presumably out too, replaced with the universal stockpile we have now.
    Although I think the stockpile is currently too limited. Maybe it would be nice to link a stockpile to a workshop as an input stockpile. For instance you assign an input stockpile to a kitchen to deny access to the food stored there to anyone but the kitchen staff. Which would prevent unwanted behavior like colonist eating raw food that is just waiting to be cooked. I don't think there's any case where a dedicated output stockpile would make sense though. This or finer controls on the stockpiles, like forbid specific items and deny consumption by colonists of specific items.
    • Then we have standalone module which is interesting, but i doubt the code supports them as modules only work within a building now.
    So presumably a boiler to make steam would be necessarily part of a workshop now. Just as the charcoal kiln is part of the metal. A thought i had is maybe give the ability for any workshop that can use steam power to have its own boiler operated by the workshop's crew, but the most efficient thing if you have many steampowered workshops would be to distribute steampower from one or several boilers linked together to power all the workshop
    • Finally there are the different kind of dynamics I presume Steam and Mech force are still in. But i doubt we'll see other kinds at first.
  5. Tikigod

    Tikigod Member

    Firstly, unrelated to CWE, but the kind of thing the OP outlined seems to be exactly what a long present game called 'Factorio' very much delivers on. It's still in Alpha and has been in development for some years now but it's very much a open 'limitless size' world on which you can build various areas of a giant industrial machine.

    You start off having to manually mine ore from the surface to get your initial furnace driven mines and refineries built and keep them a supply of coal/timber until you have the resources to start producing sources of electricity to then move to more efficient modules.

    Once research gets underway you eventually research vehicles, trains and rail networks and eventually logistical drones and the option to have self-constructed logic gate networks driving your factory using the various wiring and logic operation modules to create full blown circuits.

    Current 'end game' sees you launch a rocket into space and the next major build revision should see the opening up to building orbital satellite platforms as part of your vast industrial efforts.

    It's essentially a 'proper' implementation of the concept behind the more 'puzzle-lite' games like Big Pharma and Infinifactory that you mentioned went for.

    Sadly Factorio has slipped under many peoples radar even though it has been around in a very playable state for a long time, but I believe it's now making it way through the Steam Greenlight program to release on Steam Early Access which should hopefully make more people aware of it.


    And a video example of a early layout I had going on awhile back:

    Should be noted that the size of the map shown in my video is just the amount I've 'generated' by exploring enough to prompt the game to generate additional tiles. There's a option in world creation to have a maximum ceiling limit to how many tiles a game world can consist of, alternatively you can have the size of the world be unlimited and the game will just continue to generate more tiles and expand the world as you explore until you reach your machines limits.

    Secondly and actually related to Clockwork Empires, I seem to recall a very brief mention by Nicholas a month or so ago about there being a general ticket in place to having proper designated input/output stockpile behaviour added to the game but that it's not something he'd be tackling at least until this upcoming major revision at the very earliest.

    I'd hazard a guess that it'll probably be quite a while longer before it gets properly tackled as one thing or another ends up taking priority over adding more logistical lines.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
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  6. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Please note as well: I was going to do input/output stockpiles, but I want to see if the new code that snuck into 45 (putting workshop output goods in a stockpile of any sort correctly, rather than just anywhere on the ground) helps matters. If it still doesn't, we can investigate adding this extra logistical capability, but it seems like the best thing is to make the "output stockpile" implicit rather than explicit. Still, feedback is appreciated.
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  7. Tikigod

    Tikigod Member

    Not poked 45 enough with a non-food focused colony to see how it impacts things in this area, but I think things like mines would very much benefit from some kind of ability to designate a specific stockpile for receiving input due to the nature of mine locations not really being something the player can directly control.... you have to build your mines where the resources are and that may not necessary collate into a sensible dumping location for where the nearest stockpile actually is in you main colony.

    So given their remote positions and inability to control where you need to build them it makes sense to have a local dumping stockpile near the mine, but that's never really where you want those raw resources to remain as it means your metalworks have dragged out production times hauling resources back each order.

    If this would be something for direct stockpile expansion, or rather may be better off perhaps being handled by introducing unique behaviour to give instruction/orders for some offices like mines though.... *shrugs*
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
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  8. Tikigod

    Tikigod Member

    To go back to Factorio, just a heads up for any who may prefer to only buy their games from Steam for whatever personal quirky reasons, Factorio is now released on Steam Early Access: http://store.steampowered.com/app/427520

    The original plan was to go through Greenlight, but Valve offered them a chance to bypass Greenlight to publish on Steam directly (And as such probably meant Valve could draft up a completely different publishing agreement from the standard Greenlight one)

    Figured as there are some probably still looking for a more industrial pipeline focused game, a update regarding Factorio hitting Steam would be worth sharing.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  9. Kamisma

    Kamisma Member

    I've been playing a lot of factorio after you suggested it here and thouroughly enjoyed it. I like the early - to mid game but i think the late game becomes a bit boring as soon as you have the swarms of bots doing everything.