What games are you playing and why?

Discussion in 'Other Games' started by OmniaNigrum, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    Yes, I know. It's also ugly, and games that feature it have been repeatedly laughed at for not managing clipping better. It's not always easy to do, of course, but it was understandably more of an issue years ago, when Morrowind came out. Was commented upon at the time, and reasonably so, I think, though in some other respects Morrowind's graphics are a delight.

    With respect, that's rather vague. What features in Morrowind's combat system would be difficult to replicate via graphics? Attacks? Raising a shield? Turning and running? Throwing a spell? All these are done. So what would be the problem? What combat features specifically have been done "simpler and easier" in Oblivion and Skyrim?

    I'm going to hit bed--the meds are calling me to it. I'll be back later to respond, but at this point it simply appears that you don't like the combat mechanics, and I do: opinions based on our own preferences. I can live with that. Can you? ;)

    MOOMANiBE Ah, those were the days. Staff Member

    The problem, IMO, has far less to do with the "swinging and whiffing when it looks like you're hitting" and far more to do with the simple fact that swinging and whiffing in an action game due to dicerolls is really unsatisfying. There's a reason that very, very few action RPGs allow for "missing" your attacks.
    Kazeto likes this.
  3. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    With respect, the OOO mod is a horrible mod for one reason over all others, traps being made 30 thousand times more dangerous than they should.
    No, really, it's been quite some time since I played it, but back then, the current maintainer decided to be a raging douchebag to me because I dared to challenge his awesome mod that he took over from Obscuro.
    I only have bad experiences with that mod, and I'd prefer it if the current maintainer was struck by lightning, and no one plays OOO again ever to spite that guy.
    IT was unique, but the people who played it, and never complained about the overpowered as hell traps all need to be collectively slapped with a Oblivion Daedroth. :)
  4. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    If an enemy dodges your attack, there should be some sort of visual representation of that. It's quite hard to realistically do where animations are done in real time in a way that doesn't look stupid. There's absolutely no feedback in Morrowind though. Nothing. Just your weapon going through the model. That's not a good system, because it doesn't tell you what you need to do to improve.

    It goes back to my point about how they're using an isometric/turn-based system (e.g. Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc.) or real-time 3rd person combat (like in MMOs) in an environment that doesn't support those mechanics. With a system where you're not directly involved in the fighting, like those games I just mentioned, you can get away with dodge, hit-chance and so on. But in games like Morrowind where you have a crosshair and control the weapon, it doesn't work unless the animation and feedback system supports it, because the mechanics and the visuals contradict each other. Which aspect is most visible, the dice-roll system or the 3D representation? It's the latter, therefore that's the one that should take priority. If you see your weapon hit, because you stabbed at the object in your crosshair's focus, it should be a hit. In Skyrim and Oblivion, it is. In Morrowind, it might not be. That doesn't make sense.

    I have no problem with your preferences. I'm trying to reason my argument as to why Morrowind's combat system is not functional.
  5. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    And I agree to an extent, the combat is bugged, however, as I've basically said above, there's no reason to arraign the Hague War crimes tribunal over it. :)
    Please don't get mad at me, I do understand your complaints.

    If anyone is going to arraign the Hague War Crimes tribunal, let me do it for Fax for creating Diggle Archmages. :p
  6. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    I'm certainly not that mad.
  7. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    I know, but it seems as though you can't stop hating it in every possible way of the word hate. :)
    I'm really not trying to be annoying. As I've said, I understand your complaint.

    I'll bow out of this conversation now, to prevent you from getting angry enough to call the War Crimes Tribunal on me. :eek: You'll probably have to stand in line behind everyone else on this forum though.
  8. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    I don't hate it, either. I certainly get extremely frustrated with it - or got, I gave up trying - and as such I'm a little sad I'm missing out on, supposedly, one of the better RPGs.

    I also get passionate when debating.
  9. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    So do I.
    As a side note, your avatar reminds me a lot of Abby from NCIS.
  10. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    It does a little. Same sort of style. It's (actually) Sam from Gray Matter.

    MOOMANiBE Ah, those were the days. Staff Member

    Also playing: Dust: An Elysian Tail. Speaking as an animator, this game is one of the best animated 2d games I've ever seen. It's goddamn amazing. SO. PRETTY. And it's a very fun metroidvania, at that.
  12. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    Again, a matter of opinion. I don't find swinging and missing because of a very low agility a problem in an action RPG. On the contrary, for me, always hitting is extremely unrealistic. As though a kid fresh off a boat, stumbling around, should be able to always hit, say, a hunger or a cliff racer. That mechanic just doesn't make sense to me.

    But that isn't a matter of combat mechanics. It's a matter of graphical representation. Just as not showing a miss in DoD isn't a problem with combat mechanics, but with a low (but in my opinion, perfectly satisfactory) order of graphical representation.

    Again, you keep saying combat mechanics. What it doesn't support is the graphical representation of those combat mechanics, which is something different. I've yet to see any reason given by you why the mechanics (hit chance, dodging) are bad, when the issue is graphics that can't match what's actually happening.

    I think this conversation is just running in circles, frankly. I've given my opinion, and you disagree with it, for reasons that have to do with combat mechanics, but really don't. Fine. I understand you have your opinion, and I see no reason to debate it, because it's just that: an opinion. Please allow me the same courtesy. :)
  13. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

  14. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    Show me any 10 year old game without issues and I'll show you an ascii tic-tac-toe simulator. I'm sure if I explained the rules of chess to a hundred people, at least 10 people will have complaints that the knight's move doesn't make sense, another 10 will claim that en passant is just too wierd, and another 10 will say that castling ruins the whole game.

  15. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Actually, that does not mean it is horrible. That means it is challenging and people who don't like their games to be too hard will find it difficult to enjoy it, but people who do like their games to be challenging will welcome it.
    Personally I did enjoy it more than the basic Oblivion, just as I enjoyed using a mod that made it more difficult to aim with the bow (most of my characters were archers, or at least using a bow very often), a mod that made the screen blur and slightly sway as your stamina got low (most of my characters were roguish, so I didn't have a lot of stamina to burn), a mod that made it more difficult to fight as your health got lower, etc.. Of course there were a few "game, why do you hate me so much?" moments, but overall I did like the game more challenging because I had to plan ahead instead of just aiming a few times with my bow and gathering arrows from corpses afterwards.

    Every person has a different approach to gaming, and if you are a casual gamer who wants to steadily get further in the game without being constantly pressured then yes, installing OOO is a pretty bad idea. Challenge gamers, on the other hand, find it more appealing than the base Oblivion, precisely for the reason casual gamers don't like it.

    And another 30 will complain that the game is too hard because they have to think. Usually, at least.
  16. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Kazeto, while normally, I respect your point,. on this, I will never change my mind on.

    I'm not joking.
    I'm sorry, but maybe it's because the maintainer was the world's greatest douchebag to me, that poisoned my mind a lot, but there's a difference between a challenge, which all the other mods you gave an example of do, and OOO's traps.

    Every trap in that mod basically did about 10-20 times more damage than it did in the base game. That's not a challenge, that's insanity. :eek: I died at over 200 health in one hit by a spike platform trap in an Oblivion Gate.
    A bit much, don't you think? Since hitting them can be done accidentally.

    And if you think I'm annoying and rude, find the current maintainer of OOO, and see how nasty he is to anyone that dares challenge his precious OOO overpowered as hell traps. I'm not joking. He turns pure evil. :(

    I don't forget when people are really nasty to me, Kazeto, trust me, I remember him.
  17. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    Unfortunately, a number of modders for the ES games are...socially challenged. By no means a majority, but the behavior displayed on the official forums at times resembles a group of screaming or sulking 4-year-olds.

    And I write that as someone who has taken part in the forums for years, and has modded, himself. :rolleyes:
  18. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Well, I wasn't going to come right on out and call the guy a whiny petulant child, but you do have a point. :p He still does make me look like the nicest guy ever in the universe even at my worst.
  19. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    Well, you're a pretty decent sort, David. Don't you mod for Oblivion, as well?
  20. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    No, only Morrowind. :)
    Couldn't figure my way around the Oblivion or Fallout construction set to save my life.
    I think I'd need to spend 30 weeks taking advanced programming classes, and maybe some Advanced String Theory, or Advanced Super Symmetry to figure out the CS for Oblivion. :p

    If you count some overpowered spells/abilities/potions a mod. :)
    Personally, Morrowind is so much fun with 1300 Luck for 350,000 seconds, Gaenor, who's that?, and 120,000 feather for 200,000 seconds.
    And Reflect 100% for 200,000 seconds. We all have to start somewhere.

    Have you released any mods?