Wand Lore for thrown weapons build.

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by ElJefe, May 6, 2014.

  1. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

    I made this guy last night. I think he might work, it just might take too many levels to know

    Thrown weapons, Unarmed, Smithing, Perception (up to but not including eye laser)
    Right there is absolute must for the build.
    After that everything is maleable

    I was going to take Tinkering for clockwork limbs. I then noticed that 1, you need the recipes to be found, 2, you need TWO recipes to get it up to +5 damage. Not that great. There are rings with more damage on them than that and some lesser resistable damages. Not too impressed, might be if they Limbs were non-secret.

    So I was thinking this Paranormal for all the interesting abilities, Communism for +warrior and healing and the stealthattack for escaping stuff, and Wand Lore. I have played some rogueish builds and i never ever get enough +magic resistance. Wand lore had +6 etheral damage and +15 MR. That is a lot. combined with paranormal, it could stack decent.

    I was noticing I could make the healing wand without much trouble. I was thinking Maybe taking out Paranormal for Piracy. I dont know. Any thoughts on paranormal helping survive? Wand lore gives healing wands that have no negative synergy with Smithing lots of thrown objects. Iron and steel go to thrown weapons. Perception will provide the materials and Unarmed will allow for the myriad of bonuses and ability to hold on of using my supply to later. Wand lore also gives +sagicity/magic power to FleshBore. It is a spell on both the kicks of unarmed and the thrown. Normally the build has no increases to Magic power.

    Any suggestions? I am noticing i dont have Dodge/Block/Counter in the build at all. Worried about that. I wonder if my abilities can let me get by without those being focused on. I know I could use shields for blocking, but that takes away from tomes for throwing.

    Any idea on encrusting for smithing and wandlore? Could be decent. Problem is always saving up for thrown items. I have made thrown weapons guys in past but i get sleepy at night and die :p I was wanting to put Killer Vegan in for Communism. But I am thinking it will be emptying my supply of softballs and thrown gear early. The +5 righteous and all the huge stats would be great for thrown. Also, the righteous melee skill would be strong if added with wand lore bonuses and sagacity. Only issue is cant kill animals and no escape . Communism is my only escape skill. I would use Burglary but it adds nothing to damage and escape skill is SOOO high up the tree and communism is 0 level escape.

    Any thoughts? thanks! Love the game! (only one i play for long time)
  2. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

    OH, another thing: I am wondering if maybe Archaeology might be a good +damage booster. I never really use it, however, I could get +damage stats maybe? What are you people's thoughts on it instead of Communism.
  3. Mabeso

    Mabeso Member

    Tinkering is very helpful for boosting damage. Don't forget about power armour and rocket hands encrust. There's also an offensive shielding encrust in smithing. I'd suggest getting Fungal for both healing, invisibility, a pet and some stuff to throw. Theoretically Vegan gives a lot of :burliness: but I wouldn't go for it personally. Piracy is just great overall. Swashbuckling will save your ass in the tight spots and if you also take Magical law you can cast it multiple times. I'd also suggest getting Big Game hunter for extra :edr:, :sight: and :sneakiness: if you can fit it in.
  4. sam12six

    sam12six Member

    Paranormal Investigator is more a cool skill than one that helps survival a lot. The first ability helps survival by blocking magic attacks, but after that it's all just cool things that only help in certain situations. For example, being able to open the door of a zoo or open an evil chest from across the screen is handy but not a real game changer. Polymorphing enemies is also handy but usually not something that will change death to victory. Another thing to be aware of is that the potions you transmute don't stack with normal potions (at least they don't for me). In other words, if you have a healing potion you found somewhere and you then transmute some random potion into another healing potion, they don't stack. Paranormal feels more like a "flavor" skill to me than a survival skill.

    Just as an archer really needs perception and rogue scientist to supply enough bolts, throwing needs fungal arts and/or piracy. I don't think throwing is really viable as a primary offense because to get the damage up you need to raise your :melee_power:. If you're raising that anyway, you may as well just use hand weapons for the majority of your offense. Throwing is pretty awesome as an additional offensive outlet for a beefy fighter, but in my experience is even more difficult than an archer as a primary offense choice.

    You're definitely not going to get enough materials to support forging throwing weapons all the time. If it were me, I'd take Piracy because every point you put into it is helpful in combat and cannonballs are pretty much the only way to keep up with your need of good throwing weapons.

    Edit: I avoid wand lore because you have to put in several points before you start seeing any real return - points that IMO are better spent elsewhere. If there were a lot more wands to craft or the existing ones used more common materials, it would be a far better skill.
  5. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

    Unarmed makes throwing strong, the other skills do not really do that unless you have lots of +:melee_power:
    Piracy does look pretty good. It does not though add to damage. It does give you some nice balls. I am on the fence about using it. Hm.

    Doesnt dredmor hit you with huge spells? also, if i am in a AOE gas cloud, wouldnt +25% resistance help a lot? I have died like that on a very decent charaacter build when i was stuck in a spot.

    I will look into piracy. Doing thrown weapons 1/4th the time is the build. Up close kicks when it safe, when it is not safe, thrown weapons. Making Javelins is the idea for the build for Dredmor as I hear he is vulnerable to pierce, righteousness and ethereal damages. So unarmed has boosts to that and so does Wand Lore.

    Hm I will think about paranormal now. It looks so cool :)
  6. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

    Ok I ditched Paranormal and went Piracy. I kept Communism bc it adds Warrior levels, sneak escape, some minor healing and Winter spell all for 2 levels of points in it. Burglary = no warrior skill, Mathemagic adds to wand damage and vice versa and gives 3 mana teleport and recursive curse. This is probably a really good build with thrown... Hm.... Fleshbores would hurt and then Recursive. But this is a different build hm. also, it takes up a lot of levels to get all that working.

    That is the biggest problem with specialized builds. The levels it takes to get all the skills pumping to what you want vs conventional ones.

    I noticed that Broadside utilized Magic Power. That is interesting! Cooldown is too long to make it a notable attack as one needs grinding nonstop damage, but it is cool and will go with WandLore. Wand lore is not moving from this build. I now can make a lot of gems. Wandlore increases damage to thrown and kicks and adds Magic resistance as well as makes Citrine+Salt lutefish piece rather nice. Salt is only thing that is rare and perception cannot bring it. only thing that can is Rogue Scientist and at a hefty cost of 2 goo's.

    I read that +wandlore increases the wands power or something? anyone explain this or show where it says this?
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  7. Mr_Strange

    Mr_Strange Member

    Some wands scale effects to magic power, some scale to wandlore level.

    My favorite throwing build "The Strongest Man in the World" goes like this:

    Killer Vegan
    Thrown Weaponry
    Beserker Rage

    Smithing, Killer Vegan, Thrown Weaponry, and Piracy are the key skills here - and you desperately need a weapon skill (which could be unarmed.)

    Tinkering is really nice for sawblades & power limbs - Beserker Rage gives you auto-crits for thrown weapons!

    The only part of this build I haven't seen you discuss is Killer Vegan - it gives 5 :dmg_righteous: to all your thrown weapons, 9 :burliness: and 5 :life_regen:, plus you need non-melee ways to kill animals - like throwing! It's great synergy.
  8. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    Why not swap Piracy for Perception, if you are going the crafting route? I don't dislike Piracy, but it seems to me that Perception has a better synergy, direct or indirect, with at least 4 of the skills on your list (Smithing, Tinkering, Thrown Weapons, and Maces).
  9. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

    I think piracy and perception create a very good build. I cannot fit killer vegan into the build. If you take out Saw Blades from the build, you open up a lot of things. First off, you might not ever GET sawblades. this is a depressing part. the top weapon is out of reach or in reach... totally random.

    I like to think there is always the Javelin's coupled with righteous and ethereal damage to kill dredmor or most anything else i would gather.

    I think, for some odd reason, that one sure way of building damage in this build is unfortunately Archaeology. Bad Krongs make equipment useless. So you shy away from trying to krong stuff. If you could flip the stats, it would be great and probably end up adding some heavy damage without 'rng'.

    how does beserk factor in? isnt it a melee skill and such?
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  10. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    But it IS primariliy a melee build. The fact that it also has thrown weapons (which really synergizes well with melee) and one ranged attack from Piracy, doesn't make it a ranged build. If you use this build, you are going to have to melee a lot, but will have ranged attacks as well to deal with the more hazardous situations.

    Melee builds are designed for when melee will be your primary attack, not your only attack. No one who is well-versed in the game goes into it thinking that they are only going to have one way of dealing with problems. It's not like you are playing a role where you are restricted from doing anything else. Melee specialists use ranged attacks all the time, and ranged specialists definitely do melee when necessary (especially early in the game when ranged magic can't get you very far).

    The game has no classes in it (I was going to say 'you have no class' and then decided that that might sound too much like an insult lol). And what I mean by that is that you aren't a warrior or a mage, or a thief or an archer or whatever. If you play the game well, you are whatever is necessary to win, and that could change several times, even within the same combat. Your skills and gear give you certain strengths, but it would be silly to not take advantage of all of the tools that are available to you. It's really a kind of mental trap to think of yourself as a specific role. That is fine in rpgs (paper and pencil or otherwise) that support roleplaying, but it's not so good in a roguelike. It's a trap. You need to be more flexible in your thinking.
  11. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

  12. ElJefe

    ElJefe Member

    I like the RPG style :p

    I thank you though for the build. does beserk have any help with thrown? I know it has really nice resists and good melee bonuses