Vampirism - Actual numbers?

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by GammaPaladin, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. GammaPaladin

    GammaPaladin Member

    I've seen people post the actual mechanics of how many things work (Like Blood Magic's mana-per-kill numbers, or how secondary stats are calculated from primaries, and such), but I can't seem to find a breakdown of the formula for healing from vampirism.

    Does anyone have the numbers for this?
  2. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    Basically, it's (PWN*X) where X is the number of corpses in that tile.

    It's bugged like that, and they're changing how it works in the next patch anyway.
  3. 123stw

    123stw Member

    Not exactly.

    Vampirism comes in 2 parts, trigger Drain, and trigger Knitting Tissue.

    Drain = (magic power * 0.25)
    Knitting Tissue = 1
    The whole HealF = (magic power * 0.2) doesn't work.

    This is why even with 0 magic power, you will gain 1 hp.

    Now the bug

    Effect triggers on corpses
    This is not an Vampirism only bug, this bug affects all trigger effects. Cast a nightmare curse on a monster on corpses, and you will have multiple negatives stacked on you. I have not seen this part fixed for the next part.

    Drain can be triggered an unlimited amount of times, but spells can only be checked once per attack. Therefore, only drain part will increase with stacked corpses, the knitting tissues will not. You can test this by having 3 magic power. Nomatter how many corpses you will only gain 1 hp.
  4. GammaPaladin

    GammaPaladin Member

    Yeah, it's not the bug I'm interested in, I just wanted to know the formula for the purpose of figuring out how to maximize drain. Interesting that it's based on magic power, and sort of unfortunate for vampire fighter types. But I guess that's why you'd go dual staff.

    On the other hand, it allows for a little bit of hilarity on a dual orb Unarmed Vampire, since two Orbs of Nothing on their own would be getting you +9 health every time you smack an enemy.
  5. 123stw

    123stw Member

    Minor mistakes on my end. The healF in knitting tissue does not work

    2 orbs will only give 5 hp.
  6. GammaPaladin

    GammaPaladin Member

    Man. That's pretty lame. I mean, it works out for a caster, since they're going to have spell power out the wazoo, but for a fighter, even if you wear wizardy robes and dual orbs and a wizard's cap, you're not gonna be healing very hard, and casters shouldn't really be smacking things often.

    It'd be good if they could make it work off a different, more warriorly stat. I can see why it's based on spell power (It's technically a spell), and that might be tricky to change, but ehh... It's kind of annoying the way it is now.
  7. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    Well vampirism is a wizard skill, so having it scale with magic isn't that strange. Promoting hybridism, I guess.

    But they said they're changing it in the next patch to be more useful to pure fighters (except for it being a wizard skill, of course).
  8. GammaPaladin

    GammaPaladin Member

    Yeah, I don't really think it should be a wizard skill though.
  9. 123stw

    123stw Member


    "But they said they're changing it in the next patch to be more useful to pure fighters (except for it being a wizard skill, of course). "

    Which probably just means a nerf because, even without counting the bug, I can't see it being any better than it is now. Removing it's ability to scale with magic power means no more 10+ hp a hit.

    At least they are not changing Pact of Fleeting Life.
  10. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    Well 'more useful' might mean that it still scales, just not as much. Could end up being % of damage, or something.
  11. Kaoy

    Kaoy Member

    I would actually like to see it as a percent of damage. Perhaps 10% at level 1, then +5% there after. Even on a Mace/Shield build, I have been able to do 35+ damage a hit with a well enchanted mace, so for a dual wielder, that would work out great.
  12. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    I always took the news that it will be more useful for a melee based user now, not nerfed. IT doesn't need nerfing, it needs the corpse bug fixed. :)

    And while it is a mage based skill in this game, logically, it's not how vampires are known for. :)
    Very few are mages. Outside of Morrowind/Oblivion.
    Dracula barely knows any "magic" compared to the ones in this game. :)

    Personally, percentage might not work well. At low levels, and the fact that there's only 3 skills in the tree, you're not going to be able to heal much at all. No reason to break low leveled chars just because 10% of 30 damage is 3. :)
    Not to mention 3 healed a hit is probably almost safe.
  13. 123stw

    123stw Member

    It currently works with melee as long as you are using staves and magic training. You can easily get 10+ life leech later on. And any changes to "better fit melee" will probably means removing the magic power scaling, or reducing it in favor of a fixed variable. It will improve for other weapons, but it will probably be a nerf from it's current optimum use with staves.

    I don't think I will be getting 10+ life leech out of it after the change.

    As for a completely different scaling mechanic for vampirism, I never have much hope for those kind of maybes. Too much hardcoding for a quick fix.
  14. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Er, 10 would be a bit silly to be fair.
    As for me, dual staves are hard for me to get going.
    I get plenty of leech with dual swords, or dual maces.

    There aren't that many staves with bonuses to magic power, are there?
    Every one I come across has nothing, or 1 or 2 per staff.

    And yeah, if they make it not based on magic power, it would be better.
  15. Kaoy

    Kaoy Member


    Arguably the most broken item in the game. 19 damage a hit, 38 while dual wielding, a total of +10 magic power while dual wielded. If you are willing to invest some levels in black smith and alchemist or get a little lucky, you can become a nigh invulnerable god. And if you want to save on skill points, one of its ingredients, the Metal Orby staff isn't too shabby on its own, either.
  16. 123stw

    123stw Member

    Like pretty much every staves from mid game onward has magic. (Krobby, Metal, Conceptualization, Crystal). Never did a run without getting one. Staves tree adds another 4 magic.

    So yeah it's a nerf. Right now my necro/staff/vamp leech 35 life a hit, 91 damage per hit, and uses alchemy so Fruit Staff + Conceptualization + Magic Sandals by floor 3 is guarantee. The only luck factor I have to deal with is finding a vampire hunter hat.
  17. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Whoa. Okay, wow.
    My mistake then.

    Still, a bit much, though. :)
    It will be a nerf, but it won't be that bad for people who don't use later staffs.
  18. GammaPaladin

    GammaPaladin Member

    Honestly, if Vampirism caps out around 10-15 hp healed per hit, that's not that overpowered, considering the damage you take from each enemy hit on the last floors, and the fact that you can't heal off food.

    Though I suppose it wouldn't need to be quite that strong if you could actually wear armor that was worth anything without nerfing your healing.
  19. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    @GammaPaladin You're right. Especially if that's what they do in patch 1.04, and allow you to wear armor unless you're lucky enough to find an armored high mage robe.

    To be fair, as soon as I get them, I always wear rocket boots. :)