Tips on how to not suck?

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by alf666, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. alf666

    alf666 Member

    I got this game during the YHTNTEP sale, failed miserably on the first floor several times, and gave up on the game.

    I have recently begun to play again, but still haven't made it past DLvl 3.

    I looked up some builds on the Dredmor Wiki, but that appears to be out of date.

    I also found some builds on, and I am currently attemting one of those builds.

    Would you kindly give a new player some tips?
  2. Unicycles

    Unicycles Member

    • Take a skill with an escape - Artful Dodger's Knightly Leap has saved my ass many times. So has Mathemagic's Xeuclid's Translation.
    • Take a spell which allows you to heal. I love alchemy, but Fungal Arts and Psionics both have pretty nice heals.
    • If you aren't a mage, make sure you use crossbows/thrown weapons to weaken things before engaging.
    • Take Promethean Magic and Blood Mage together if you want a slightly easier run (imo).
    • Open doors from their corner. This way you can shut them again if you encounter something exceptionally nasty (a zoo, perhaps).
    • Similarly, open monster chests from a diagonal tile. If a monster spawns, it will have to move before hitting you.
    But really, you're going to die a lot in this game. You'll come to love it :p haha, best of luck!
    Marak and shaken like this.
  3. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    All of what Unicycles says is good advice, though I look at the game with a completely different philosophy -- instead of worrying that you suck at the game, think about what kind of build you think would be fun, and try to make that work. And if something clearly doesn't work for you, figure out whether it was because of bad luck or because you made a mistake somewhere along the line -- what could have changed the outcome? A lot of the time I've figured out that I was simply too hasty in my actions, and my dying had less to do with my build and more to do with a brain fart of some kind (I'm definitely prone to that) And sometimes, life just sucks. I've started the game with a great build (or so I believed) only I open the very first door and there's a monster zoo with a named boss right smack dab in my face. When that happens, reload and try again.

    In any case, I will also add the following:
    1. Skills that give you a pet very early on can be extremely helpful -- let your pet do the fighting.
    2. The Promethean+Blood mage combo is good, but there are other synnergies possible in the game. If you take any skill that uses mana, and you plan on going further up in that skill, then you'll probably want to take either Blood Magic or Ley Lines and/or Magic Training. Blood Mage works best with skills like Promethean that have high AE damage spells towards the end of their skill tree (eg. Necronomiconomics)
    3. If you want to go the warrior route, I recommend taking either Master of Arms or Shield Mastery. There are even some magic skills that go well with melee, such as Astrology and Viking Magic.
    4. Also, look at your skill choices -- is it defense-specialized or dodge/counter attack or magical? Use that to help you decide what gear you'll want because you generally want to go with your strengths.
    5. Remember that you do NOT need a weapon skill to use a weapon, and if you find a great weapon, even if it doesn't fit your current build, you may want to use it until you find something good that's more appropriate. Just because you are a Mace warrior, doesn't mean that you shouldn't use that cool staff that you luck into that does massive damage.
    6. The number of stars on a piece of equipment is less important than the actual stats. The stars simply help determine the base value of an item when selling it -- I've gotten awesome single-star items that were better than a 5-star item.
    7. I've noticed that a lot of newbies are afraid to use Necronomiconomics -- don't be. It's an awesome skill so long as you know that you will want to work on your necro resist before you start using it extensively, and that it's not a skill that you'll want to use much until you get deep into the tree and/or have built up that resist. So if you take it, make sure that you have another skill or skills to tide you over until it really starts to shine.
    ghostyTrickster and Marak like this.
  4. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    If you're playing a character who will extensively use melée combat, take the mace skill. One of the talents (Ragnar's Meteor) is a VERY useful utility to have, plus the knockbacks it grants for combat will help keep you alive.

    I always hotbar an ingot press, an elven grinder and a lutefisk cube even if I have no crafting skill. They will allow you to utilise the food and things you find better. Grind all of the cheese and meats (except the cheese with the holes in it), save the bread and diggle eggs, and you'll be able to make Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and Deep Omelettes. Also, utilise the Fud vendor to get more resources. You WON'T need to buy any cheese other than the one with holes, though. A lot of things you can just lutefisk if you won't use - empty flasks, mana drinks, fruit and poor quality rings.

    A crossbow should ALWAYS be equipped regardless of your skill choices. They're good for picking off enemies like blink batties, dead heads, wights, etc. - but also for utilising some of the more powerful bolts like the Bolt of Mass Destruction and the Squid Bolt.

    Oh, and play on Elvishly Easy until you know what you're doing. Disabling RotDG when starting a new game may also help.
  5. Warlock

    Warlock Member

    However, Grilled cheese sandwiches have a somewhat uncommon limitation. Bread is sort of in short supply in the dungeons, vending machine or no.

    And if you want to use Necroeconomics as a main attack tree, First level up point has to go into that for Mark of C'Thon. It will save your hide from Necropain debuffs. The tree also synergizes well with Astrology, and astrology also gives native necromantic resistances to start off.
  6. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    That's true, but I find it's generally worth holding on to bread and checking the vending machines for it.
  7. Insanius

    Insanius Member

    Learning all the little synergies between different skill trees is definitely one of the ways you can get better at DoD.
    Astrology/Necronomiconomics is a classic, but it requires a bit of research to see how much necropain you can actually handle. (Lucky we have dredmorpedia)

    Other well known synergies to keep in mind:
    - Unarmed Combat+Shield Bearer
    You can dual wield shields instead of having a weapon!)
    - Viking Wizardry+Blood Mage
    Magic Steel is very strong as a level 0 spell. You'll be able to keep Magic Steel casted more or less permanently even without booze.
    - Dual Wielding+Alchemy
    Alchemy has a very strong potential to bring you late game items early on through crafting, specifically the Fruitful Staff and Jingly Jangly Staff of Crystals. Dual Wielding allows you to maximize this advantage.

    In the latest patch Perception now gives you chances to find items after kills. A large proportion of Luckier Find procs will give you reagents and ingots. If you have any kind of crafting skill I recommend that you take Perception as well. (Lucky find procs can also drop bread, cheese, and diggle eggs.)

    Having Mace, Staff, or Unarmed mastery tends to make your run a little easier if you're not a mage, as they all give you some type of knockback ability.
    Don't be afraid to use up your throwables and potions in monster zoos (That's mainly what they're for right?), if you hold on to them too much you'll find yourself always out of inventory space and Dredmor himself isn't a 30 minute battle that will expend all of the resources you've saved up anyway.
  8. Warlock

    Warlock Member

    Another VERY important tip: Don't try and take on most bosses in melee unless you haven't got any other options on Going Rogue. They hurt. :(
  9. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    One thing that I'm surprised no one has mentioned, since it has become almost a clichee -- Burglary can be a great addition to nearly any build that has room for it. It gives you unlimited lockpicks with one skill point, an invisibility, a teleport, and can enable you to steal just about everything that isn't nailed down. Ever notice how Brax even on level 1 sometimes has awesome gear? Well, with maxed out Burglary, you can almost always manage to rob him blind, and get away scott-free (just make sure you are prepared to stay off of that level once and for all when you rob him, because things will get very hot very quickly once you leave the shop).
  10. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    Test out your new spells before using them extensively. Some spells can't be cast directly on enemies, many cooldown abilities are useful only outside of combat. No abilities in the vanilla game will kill you after a single use in an empty room, not even Necronomiconomics (but mods are fair game; looking at you, Archmage).

    Killer Vegan + a mage build (either traditional or gish) is highly effective. Half of the dungeon's monsters are neutralized, and you get some nice buffs against what remains. Plus, by being a magic user, you retain the ability to kill the creatures that you normally would have to ignore! (It's only regular melee attacks that trigger Vegan's debuffs; spells, traps, procs, etc. don't.)

    If you're willing to look at mods, Druid Magic and Meteorology are excellent additions to a mage build; they don't do much early on but after 2 skill points in Druid (4 for Meteorology) they become very powerful due to giving you long-lasting, hard-to-resist ranged damage field spells. Also, Faxpax's Necrolyzing Aspirant completely breaks Necronomiconomics, and gives you crafting levels to boot.

    Skills that are currently broken: Vampirism doesn't scale enough to keep you alive on lower floors. Unarmed works even if you're wielding weapons. One of the YHTNTEP skills (probably Rogue Scientist, but possibly Warlockery or Clockwork Knight) has a buff that tends not to get removed when it's supposed to, resulting in self-destructions even when you're using the skill correctly. Rogue Scientist has a thing where if you throw its grenade at something and it bounces back and hits you, you die instantly, but that's a necessary part of how the mod works and can't be fixed, and is why the skill description says not to point it directly at enemies.
  11. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    I don't think there's any problem with Clockwork Knight, since I've played with it extensively -- it's probably one of the others that you are thinking of.
  12. Warlock

    Warlock Member

    Before I forget: Rocket Punch can be (ab)used in certain situations to knock item pedestals out of Brax's shops, I think. Just be sure not to hit HIM with it or you're pretty much boned. If you have any teleport skills which work, rob all the Brax shops of anything you need once you have it. Just be sure not to leave anything behind, and that you've emptied the vending machines of anything you don't need.
    shaken likes this.
  13. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    Look, there is a lot that can be said here. If you keep getting stuck/killed early on you might consider actually listing some of the ways that you die.

    Lets look at it from a different point of view.
    People have already addressed builds but some other things to consider:
    1. Are you doing your best to avoid careless or minor damage?
    2. Are you going down due to zoos?
    3. Are you dying to unexpected bursts of damage?

    1. Careless minor damage can really add up.
    1a. Especially from traps. go a little slower. as a beginner pick up skills that let you spot and remove traps easily. Burglary and Archeology are great beginner skills for this and other reasons.
    1b. If you can weaken monsters before they engage with ranged weapons, do it.
    1c. Try and use food sparingly and pace yourself. You don't want to be eating it all when you don't need to be, but you don't want to ever be entering a large fight at half health. Noobies underutilize vending machines. They can be invaluable. Proper food use makes a huge difference.

    2. If you want to survive a zoo you need a plan. Usually on floor 2 I already know what skill/abilities will be my linchpin zoo skill, something that I will build to to survive. It could be just lots of zombies from flesh smithing, and having bought a lot of alcohol from machines. It could be a heavy melee build that I will stand in a pinch point and fight things one on one (and can keep the food buff up throughout the fight).

    3. If you go into a fight and suddenly realize that your health is going down very very fast you need a plan.
    3a. Get an escape skill. As mentioned earlier, getting an early escape skill like knightly leap can pay off well.
    3b. properly value escape items. New players often undervalue items like potion of instability or inky hoglanterns. Sure they take up inventory space for half the game, but when it finally saves you, keeping your character is worth not having that inventory slot for the previous 7 floors. others include potion of invisibility and stone arrows. rapid healing from fairy wodgers and health potions are also very valuable.

    My suggestion for an noob friendly build: Tanky rogue.
    Master of Arms
    Fungal Arts

    First point into the fungal arts for the summon, which can fight all of the first floor on its own. From there, you can go for lucky pick for more experience on doors or smithing to make tanky armor and better maces or mace skill for faster beatdown. For more fun you can substitute out berserker for either thrown weapons or big game hunter (assuming you have RotDG) and you have a pretty health build that has few early game weaknesses and no mana depedency allowing you to use heavy weapons and armor.
  14. The bugged skill from YHtNtEP is in Warlockery - the arcane capacitor. It doesn't get removed properly, meaning it will ALWAYS overcharge and blow up in your face.
  15. alf666

    alf666 Member

  16. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    You can use the BBQ grills to convert any kind of steak into a Grilled Steak, which heals for 10 hp, the highest of all steak types.

    Grind up a Grilled Steak and you get 4 ground meat, which heals you for a total of 12 hp.

    Ground meat is incredibly useful as both an out-of-combat heal, and as fodder for skolling. (Skolling is the process of using a Horadric Lutefisk Cube to convert items into lutefisk. Give 500 lutefisk to a Lutefisk God statue for an artifact. PRECISELY 500 lutefisk, any less and the bonuses are smaller, any more is wasted.)
    shaken likes this.
  17. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Member

    This thread is worth a read. I made it and I still learned stuff from it!

    And this one!

    The most important survival thing I've learned in this game is to make use of *everything* you pick up, even if it is not your among your skills. If you pick up a throwing item, make use of it even if you don't have throwing as a skill. And so on. Every little bit helps. This game is as much about focusing on your build as it is adapting to what the dungeon tosses your way.
  18. Wolg

    Wolg Member

    Thinking back, realising what Wootah mentioned in tip #1 was the moment that dramatically improved the survival odds of my Eyebrows*. The build mentioned is virtually identical to the one I used to beat GRPD RotDG FSF, just change mace->unarmed and fungal->assassin.

    Waltzing largely unmolested through monster hordes is for Diablo, not Dredmor. :)

    ( * = that looks like such a weird statement now that I reread it... )
  19. TheKirkUnited

    TheKirkUnited Member

    Here's some advice I wish someone had given me when I started playing, hope you find it useful.

    I find that traps kill me more than anything else on the early floors, so I take a trapsight skill of some kind with every build I make. Burglary, Tinkering, Perception, Archaeology are all good choices for this. There is a smattering of it here and there in other skill trees but any one of these will give you all you need.

    It's already been mentioned that some skills to teleport and heal are highly recommended so I won't belabor that point but keep it in mind. Also anything that gives you invisibility or does stun/knockback is incredibly useful. Anything that will buy you time in a fight is to be respected and used as frequently as possible.

    Skills are important but don't take your inventory for granted. Most active skills in the game are replicated somewhere in item form. This means the right item at the right time can be the difference between killing Dredmor and rerolling. Learn what the items do, what's useful and what's not and don't hesitate to use your stuff. I tend to empty my inventory of ammunition when I hit monster zoos, but it works.

    Dying with a full inventory is the worst. Use everything you have to survive.

    Also, keep positioning in mind. Use the dungeon environment to your advantage. If you have to stand and fight do it at a bottleneck where you only have to deal with one enemy at a time. Enemies set off traps just like you do. Abuse this. Make the diggle walk over the arrow trap five times.

    Don't fight named enemies in melee if you can avoid it. This used to be the golden rule back in the terrifying days of repeated Crit Counter Crit engagements. You can get away with it nowadays, but it's still not suggested if you want keep your eyebrows waggling.

    And finally if you're doing all that but still can't get past the third floor you might consider knocking the difficulty down a bit. I don't know what difficulty you're on but, the game can be rough even on Elvishly Easy, and I really wouldn't recommend starting on Going Rogue until you've beaten the game on Dwarven. (This is my opinion. Some folk start on GRPD and never look back and there's nothing wrong with that.)

    That's all I can think of for now. You can find more specific information like skill builds and such scattered on the forums. Mr. Strange's Unofficial Strategy Guide and the Project: Community Skills guide are of particular merit for specific game information.

    Hope this helps. Best of luck in all your Liche destroying endeavors.
    Marak, OmniNegro and Kazeto like this.
  20. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    Alternatively, take a knockback skill, such as Psionic's shove spell. These work on traps and just about every other object in the dungeon that sits on the floor.

    I honestly never use invisibility. Maybe I should, but I tend to rely on summons, items, killing things that get near me, and never getting near monsters in the first place.

    Case in point: Gargle-Blasters. A lot of people don't take Astrology because most of the tree isn't that useful and the one really useful buff can be replicated (in a lesser form) just by drinking a fairly common type of booze. (That's not to say it's not a good tree; the level-0 skill is great for necronomiconomists and the capstone is probably the strongest spell in the game.)

    Golemancy is great for making bottlenecks where they wouldn't otherwise exist. Summons delay and distract enemies as long as they're alive, and Unliving Wall is basically an invincible wall tile that lasts for 100 turns or so, that you can cast directly on enemies.

    Unfortunately, there's no haste/slow mechanic in this game; this is why teleports are so useful--they're the only 100% effective way to gain range without sacrificing line of sight.

    If any monster's description tells you not to let it touch you, stay away from it. It will corrupt your equipment if it gets a melee attack in on you, which means stat penalties that don't come off unless you took Demonology or switch equipment.

    Unless you're a veteran of the genre (roguelikes) or feel especially confident in your abilities, I recommend leaving Permadeath off until your first Dredmor kill. Permadeath will delete your save file when you die if it's enabled.
    OmniNegro and Kazeto like this.