Steam's new license agreement (tl;dr version)

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by banjo2E, Aug 2, 2012.

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  1. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    I can vouch for that, Omni.

    Humans aren't "retarded" by default. It is just that some of them don't care about trying to think in the slightest. Of course, there are people who are really incapable of articulating themselves in any understandable way, but those are rare cases that we can mark as "exceptions from norm".

    Heck, we can even use DavidB1111 as an example - his condition might mark him as either "disabled" or "retarded" depending on the wording, and here he is, partaking in an intellectual conversation on some topic. And it is possible only because of the fact that he is trying.

    Valve people, on the other hand, are ignorant of some things. And that is because, even though they do not have the law on their side with every action of theirs, they have the element of intimidation as they can make people think that they do have law on their side.
    And their strategy would not be a viable one if some people weren't ignorant as well. Because they all have access to the internet, there's nothing stopping them from spending some time with uncle Google and taking their EULA apart. But no, they don't do that, because they don't care about doing anything about it regardless of how much they complain, and because their ignorance stops them from thinking about it until it's too late.
    And the same about Valve. Because most people don't put up any resistance, they had remained ignorant of those who can and will, and thus they aren't particularly well prepared for someone trying to sue them. The reason for that may lie on CEO's side, or on their lawyers' side, but most likely it lies on both, as they all know that seldom a person reads EULAs.

    Personally? I have a copy of every game I bought on Steam. They are mine and I am allowed one copy for backup purposes, which I know precisely because I bothered to check instead of remaining ignorant.
     
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  2. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    I also think calling EULAs "illegal" is a bit, um, wrong. There's a difference between illegality (i.e. against the law) and something that is untested in court. EULAs have been around for decades - if they were illegal, it would have been sorted years ago, unless there's a truckload of software companies lobbying the courts and giving backhanders - and we still have them.

    What we need are EULAs to get processed by the courts in the major countries (at least), and even then the results will differ - after all, software laws in the UK are different to those in the US, as an example - and for the courts and software industries to work together to reach a solution.

    Edit: Also, for the nine-billionth time, can we PLEASE stop using the word "retarded"?
     
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  3. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    They are often legally void. That is a better way to put it.

    For the first time, can you give us any alternative word to use?
     
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  4. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    Which is not the same thing as illegal. At all. EULAs come under a big legal grey area - they're not legal, nor illegal. Maybe. But as I said, they need to go through the courts.

    There's such thing as a "thesaurus", maybe some people should pick one up and look for alternatives to "ridiculous" and "bad".

    We have a number of members here who are open about their problems, and I think to keep using "retarded" is doing them a disservice, and not in-keeping with the spirit of the site.
     
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  5. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    That I agree with. And I asked because I though you didn't want this word being used to refer to people with disabilities, in which case there aren't many replacement words so the thesaurus had failed me (and thus I asked). But yeah, referring to ignorance or plain stupidity as being "retarded" is kind of weird.
     
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  6. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    As said above, I don't think we have anything to worry about.
    Um, thanks? :confused: Asperger's has a huge range, and it's High Functioning Autistic.
    I'm mostly shy in real life, but I'm really quite talkative, and smart.

    I've met people with severe mental disorders, I had a neighbor with Down Syndrome. Talking to him was difficult. Mostly because he could understand me mostly, but he couldn't speak that well. He was smart enough to go help me get back to his house when I cut my wrist on some glass though.

    I've been around people with disabilities before, all sorts of them, and the majority were not as a severe as the kid with Down Syndrome.

    Regardless, I don't think Steam is run by people who my Neighbor with Down Syndrome is smarter than. :)
     
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  7. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Retardation is not in itself an offense. And only a moron would think that using the word mean I am being disrespectful of those who are indeed retarded.

    We argued about this last year too Althea. Please find something new to bash me for. (There is plenty more that I have done you could be bashing me over. And you *DO NOT* want me quoting each and every post were we argued this.)

    Here read and enjoy. I have.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation

    And if you want to continue this fight, please make a thread for it so people can opt-out of reading it.

    I have family that are mentally retarded. I have a pet cat who is retarded. I know for a fact that many otherwise competent Doctors and politicians I have met were retarded.

    When the term is used to define a person who actually is mentally or physically retarded, it is an excuse of behavior otherwise intolerable. When used against supposedly competent people, it is another way of saying they are stupid morons. *That* is the full extent of how I am using the word.

    If I have to change my full vocabulary every time you decide a word is unkind to someone then that gives you infinite power to ruin my day. I will not do it. I respect those legitimately retarded people and even animals out there in the world. If that is not enough then we are destined to fight to the death on this and many other subjects.

    I will not stop using the word retarded when it is appropriate. You seem convinced there is no case where it is appropriate. I have friends with Down Syndrome too. *They* call me retarded when I do something stupid. And I dare say they are right to do so.
     
  8. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    People with Down Syndrome can talk normally? I thought that disorder messed up how the speech center worked?
    I guess it has a large list of problems it can give you.

    Omni, you do have a point, you're not calling people mentally retarded, just retarded.
    One of the definitions of retarded is to be held back after all. :)

    "I have a pet cat who is retarded." I think my cat might be that way sometimes too. When she wants food after I fed her...:rolleyes:
     
    OmniNegro likes this.
  9. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    Just because your friends/family don't find it offensive, it doesn't mean others won't.

    As Nicholas and Daynab have said countless times (along with other Gaslamp staff) - this is an open, inclusive and respectful community. When someone asks you to tone down your language or to stop using a term with negative connotations, you should comply. You should not stand there and make an argument about how your friend is okay with it so you won't stop, because it doesn't make your behaviour correct. Words like 'idiot' and 'moron' have largely lost their stigma in Western society, but in some areas the term 'retarded' hasn't (or at least not fully) - it's still a term with derogatory connotations).

    It isn't censorship, it isn't political correctness - it's about keeping this community friendly, open and respectful of those who may be sensitive about their (mental and/or physical) health conditions. Remember, we have people from many different nations here, so whilst one word might be seen to be acceptable in your little corner of the world, it might be a highly offensive term in another country (an example being 'spaz' - in the US it's not really an offensive term, whereas in the UK it's a derogatory term for someone with a mental health problem - and it was changed (IIRC) in the UK version of Fallout: New Vegas in order for it to not cause offence).

    P.S. How can you have a "stupid moron"? That's an oxymoron at the very least.
     
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  10. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Siding with Althea here; can we just go with "stupid" or "inane"? Danke schoen.

    (Also, welcome back, Omni. :p)

    EDIT: Ah, screwit, this thread isn't going anywhere productive.
     
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