Next patch?

Discussion in 'Realm of the Diggle Gods' started by Borodin, Feb 20, 2012.

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  1. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    Just wondered when the next patch might be expected. It was due initially some time back, but a host of matters pushed it back.
  2. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    If I were to give my opinion, it's "when we stop asking for stuff to be added in the next version", aka. "a few days after all modders get banned from the forum for a week".
    It *was* supposed to be released, but then Nicholas asked us if there's anything we deem as urgent when it comes to changes. And it spiralled to hell from there.
    Wi§p likes this.
  3. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    I sincerely hope that's not the case. Feature Creep, whether in game design or patching, is a very bad thing. I've been on the game design end of things before for a while (though these days all I do is the occasional mod); and for what little my opinion's worth, it's more important to get a product out, in reasonably good time with what you basically want, then to fulfill every person's ultimate goal of what it should look like and have to put off release indefinitely.
  4. blob

    blob Member

    +1 to you
  5. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    BLASPHEMY! Besides, most of the things people mentioned really were legitimate problems that needed fixing. There's only about one page of "oh, and this would be really cool" type requests.
    Kazeto likes this.
  6. I'm glad they're nailing a massive array of bugs that have been around for a long time. I would not have wanted to have a patch released last week with all the bugs still in it.
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  7. kino5

    kino5 Member

    I see Borodin's point, but i agree with Essence and Rarefied Horse Meat here. It's not like people were just asking for little things without real meaning. I don't mind if I have to wait a little more, if that means a bunch of bugs being fixed, that wouldn't be fixed if the patch came out when it was intended.
  8. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    With respect, please don't try to turn this into a straw man argument. We both know we're not discussing a week's difference, but a patch that was first discussed in their January 16th blog as ready to go in a week's time. In other words, the delay hasn't been a week, but a month. Nor do we know that this patch is going to be any better than what was planned for January 23rd; nor does it matter. What I do suggest to the development team that matters is getting out patches in a timely fashion. And if this can't be done, then don't tell people a patch is coming out when (whether for perfectly good reasons, or not) you change your mind and keep your patch back. It creates expectations that you aren't prepared to meet.
  9. blob

    blob Member

    It is also important to note that the people on the forum are aware of what's going on, but 99% of the player who will NOT come to the forum are waiting for this patch and going through tedious bugs that have been fixed and could be released or at least tested now.
    Like Borodin mentionned, regular patches would be a good way to plan developpement work.​
  10. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    At least GLG are keeping us fairly up-to-date with it, unlike some companies.
    Rarefied Horse Meat likes this.
  11. Psiweapon

    Psiweapon Member

    Hey people let's not get our asses over our heads, shall we? ;)

    Remember that this patch isn't only about bugs and features, it's also about libraries and refactoring. Also, that the Gaslamp Team (Go! Go! Go!) are getting their arses into developing some sort of MAD SCIENTIST PROJECT INVOLVING TRESTLES (and hopefully dwarves)*

    We're all anxious for the patch to come (some of us would already have bitten their nails up to their elbows, if hands weren't needed to play Dredmor) but these guys have made an awesome game that costs us... Well, I don't know you but where I live it's the cost of three beers or something like that. Also, they show around here and even take our opinions into account.

    All that said, Borodin has a point about feature creep, and about frequent release schedules.

    Oh also I forgot that they probably have a life of their own besides WORK.

    *read that aloud with a radio commercial voice from the fifties
  12. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I agree that people were putting words in your mouth, and that's not cool. I don't think they were doing this out of malice, just that they were aware of a different context than you.

    No offense intended, but on that specific issue you are misinformed.

    There's more than one thread on this forum where, in the past week and change, the devs have gotten on to reply to specific threads and say they were incorporating a fix to the bugs being complained about. In several cases, they asked "anything else I should work on while I'm at it?", were given feedback, and then said "okay, just fixed that, too."

    So we honestly can say that this patch is indeed better and more comprehensive than what was planned for release a month ago.
  13. Diplomacy WIN!
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  14. Borodin

    Borodin Member

    Surely my own response, which began "With respect," indicated this? Like Aretha, I don't toss around that RESPECT word lightly. ;)

    I'm pleased to hear this, but the information wasn't placed in the blog. It's safe to say that many of us weren't aware of it--still aren't, in fact. That's a second issue: if you're delaying a bug fix/patch/feature change considerably past the time you've announced it, keep your buyers regularly aware of work still being done in a centralized location where most of them will read your posts. Such as a blog.

    But not to belabor the point, the central one I was making is to stick to an announced schedule, and if you can't, stick as close as possible to it while keep your buyers aware of the reason(s) for the delay. Most companies work at multiple incremental patches which (just my own view) makes more sense than a mega-patch, but either is superior is leaving people in the dark over your activities.

    To anyone who reads, here: none of this is a sudden palm strike to the throat, folks. I'm not stating anything that isn't covered in basic company-consumer relations, or simple common sense human communications. Let's not get a little defensive when a company we like announces a patch for delivery in one week's time and haven't provided it in one month, prompting someone to mention this. They're ultimately the arbiter of whether they choose to accept or reject the advice I've provided above, and a defensive ring around them isn't really necessary when they're not under attack.
    Wi§p, r_b_bergstrom and blob like this.
  15. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I will definitely agree that the current methodology for informing the fan base is chaotic and less than ideal. Some information comes up on the blog, much more on the forums, and a bit more via twitter. I'd love to have it all consolidated to one place for those who don't have the time for chasing after the details. If I weren't modding this game, I wouldn't be on the forums often enough to keep up with it all - and if it didn't take so much effort to keep up with it all, I'd have a lot more time for modding.
    Wi§p and ElectricMessiah like this.
  16. I hereby nominate Daynab for the position of Community Modera... oh.. nm. He already is. :)
    I hereby nominate Daynab for the position of Gaslamp Games Community Spokesperson. All he needs is permission(s) to spend more time on the forums for our benifit. :)
    Wi§p likes this.
  17. Wi§p

    Wi§p Member

    Seconded, although I feel a little bad about asking anymore from him when he already does so much ;)
  18. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Sorry for not getting to this thread earlier - guess who totally did not write down his forum password anywhere, and then forgot it. (Also, it turns out our forum reset password button doesn't actually work. Huh.)

    Okay, on the patch status: I agree that we're running behind here. As with every other Dredmor patch, this is my fault, and it's due to my inability to correctly regulate feature creep. Whenever we announce that we are releasing a patch, people come out of the woodwork and say "Oh, can you fix X while you're in there?" I have the poor habit of taking these things seriously, then everything gets backed up and we end up with a Megapatch when it only should have been to fix a few things. Compounded with the company growing pains, moving into another office, and needing to get started with Odin earlier.... well, it's all been a mess. I'm still mainly blaming the feature creep, though, especially this week - and that one's directly due to my inability to say No. I don't like disappointing people - my tendency is always to try to build something larger, slower, but I certainly understand that people would really like to have some of the already fixed stuff in their hot little hands now (such as the bookcase bug, which there is really no excuse for not fixing almost immediately.)

    Anyhow, I am cranking away at the darned thing as fast as I can, and both David and Daniel are busy standing over my back with Automatic Programmer Whipping Devices.

    (I will also note that having my toilet back up and flood my apartment - again! - on Tuesday has not helped matters. This happened with 1.0.8 as well.)

    EDIT: On the subject of communication, because that was mentioned above - yes, in an ideal world we would centralize our communications more. At the same time, the lack of centralization mainly stems from the fact that we try, really hard, to be approachable and to interact with our customers. Sometimes, that means that not everybody gets the message, or that it gets delivered across one venue (forums/Twitter/blog) and not all the others. We could centralize, but I think that would remove some of the approachability. I'm open to suggestions, however.
    Exile, Wi§p, Karock and 5 others like this.
  19. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Just don't overexert yourself. We can wait one more day if it makes the difference between you being fine and having to be taken to the hospital.

    And on another note, perhaps instead of announcing "We're making version x.y.z. State what you want to be added while we're at it." if would be wiser if you created a suggestion topic a few days after the patch, and took a look at the suggestions when planning said another patch.
    Wi§p and Wisse like this.
  20. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    For what it's worth, and I realize I'm hardly representative of the everyman, I'd rather wait longer and get more toys (and less bugs) when the patch arrives. So I actually really appreciate what you've been doing. :)
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