New feature/bugfix for "walking with WASD" option

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by GreyZ0mbie, May 2, 2012.

  1. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Well, it does do 700 shards damage, so, yeah, Shard Resistance helps.
    Reduces it to like 266 damage.

    Fun fact, one of my friends beat Zangband without Shards resistance. Everyone was really surprised on the Angband newsgroup when he did that all those years ago.
    Let's end off topic before Daynab beats me up.
     
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  2. Aquaman

    Aquaman Member

    I imagine that a skill such as burglary or tinkering would have an ability to give probes much like we already have for lockpicks. Not to mention if it still used lockpicks those are plenty enough as it is.
     
  3. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    It would also make that skill a requirement. Skills are options.
     
  4. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Fax basically answered the same I would have.
    I personally think if you're going to nerf trap detection/disarming, you should nerf traps as well.
    Otherwise, you risk this game becoming more dickish than Nethack. :)
     
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  5. BDR1985

    BDR1985 Member

    Well, it was an idea on how making the lines not stand out so boldly would work - there really ought to be a way to do that at least; otherwise they might as well be filled in like all the other traps. Maybe a set of sprites that are called based on where they fall on the 'too high to see properly' mark to simulate opacity? Otherwise I'm not sure how to roll out 'invisible' traps that aren't quite so visible.

    1. The requirement for an item mentioned in Aquaman's post is.. well, I guess this is what I get for not explictly saying I'm not sold on that. Oh well, I'm not! It might work with heavy tweaks for the 'I don't have them' case the way lockpicks currently work (or 'work' depending on your POV), or it might not. It's not really integral to the way I was thinking anyway. Sorry that wasn't clear.

    2. Level 10+ traps? I thought the maximum level a trap could have was 10. Let me check the Dredmorpedia.. hm, it doesn't really say; how annoying. In any case, I did add that I felt the character's :trap_level: should count for something in determining whether they could see a trap. Checking on the numbers from skills revealed that Burglary doesn't grant as much as I thought it did (slightly confusing since I have a character that has 5 :trap_sense: and 4 :trap_level: naturally by the first Archeology and maxed Burglary - not sure where the extra point of :trap_sense: came from since it's not on any of my equipment), though I understand you're trying to keep away from requiring skills. The divisor thought is not bad at all, though it might have to be tweaked to account for the character's :trap_level: having an effect on how soon traps are sighted. I suggested :trap_sense: + ( :trap_level:/2) - $TrapLevel in my post (in an algebraically reversed form) as a tentative formula - maybe instead it could be :trap_sense: + :trap_level: - ($TrapLevel/X), where X could be as you suggest for the difficulties, since even a level 12 trap with these new concepts would be considerably more interesting and potentially dangerous in other ways besides how far away I can spot it.

    3. Also while reading I noted some responses that said traps should be nerfed if :trap_sense: is going to be nerfed - my feeling on this is that traps right now are already almost as toothless as it gets. There are only two current cases where traps are not toothless in the face of mouse travel in a way that cannot be ignored: 1. traps that block a corridor or room in such a way that you can't travel freely from one room to the next, which can be got round enough ways that it's not a problem past maybe the first floor if you're really unlucky, and 2. enemies walking over traps, which can activate respectably dangerous area effects, but since you can with a good amount of trap sight see the trap before the monster walks over it, isn't very dangerous in practice. I'd rather have either more dangerous and interesting traps or traps that can be automatically disarmed by both mouse click and WASD rather than what we have now, where traps are generally just pointless timesinks and easy experience, but if I could choose between those former choices I would pick more dangerous and interesting traps over boring traps that no longer slow me down.

    e: Dammit I should just make a Traps topic. Let's go ahead and fix that..

    e2: ah, forgot about how the initial visibility reduction formula went. Sorry for sorta passive-aggressively acting like you didn't read it right when I forgot how it went myself. Consider that 2. thinking as applying to the visibility reduction stuff.
     
  6. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Yeah. The highest level trap I know of is 16 (the dragonsbreath caltrop eruptor).


    That's exactly why I was so aggressive with the scaling and the damage on the caltrops and caltrop eruptors being put in via the new DLC. Traps as they are now are only dangerous if you're being stupid.
     
  7. BDR1985

    BDR1985 Member

    That's impressive. I guess the only way a normal character is disarming that one automatically is with Tinkering, Burglary, and the three utility items or an artifact or two with some :trap_level: on them! If there's a trap I ought to be paranoid of running over by moving too fast, it's that one.
     
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  8. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    You are on the right track. WATCH OUT BEHIND YOU!!!
     
  9. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Let me be clear.
    I almost never use Mouse walk. It's not very useful for me at all, and compared to WASD, glacially slow.
    Also, you apparently don't realize there have been a bunch of extremely dangerous traps already in the game.

    Don't tell me traps are toothless in this game, if any trap can do over 60 damage without insane resistances. :) Daynab will point you out to that one post he made about traps doing pretty much above that. I believe. Killed him via acid.

    Also, Please don't tell me traps are weak because someone can mouse walk away from them, that negates all those, who like me, and my friend, who use the WASD keys to move.
    You can't punish people by changing trap detection/disarming just because some people use the mouse movement and apparently have awesome mice that make it go faster. Because, compared to normal WASD, the mouse movement is slowwwwwwwwww.
     
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  10. mining

    mining Member

    This this this this this this this this this.

    Do not balance the game around what seems to be a bug/unintended feature at best.
     
  11. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    I play only with wasd and use the mouse only for targeting and interaction. Mousewalk is sacrilege. :)
     
  12. BDR1985

    BDR1985 Member

    I hate mouse movement too. That doesn't change the fact that mouse interaction is required to interact with traps, nor that the game for lack of features discriminates against WASD users in this area regardless of anything anyone here says. (it also doesn't change the bit where with at least about three or four points of trap sight I get plenty of advance warning even with WASD that I need to change direction, nor the part where = does make animations faster and by extension mouse play faster, if considerably more dangerous by monster, not that this matters a ton)

    Traps aren't any more interesting to me in general with a decent amount of trap sight than Dredmor statues are (and the statues are a hell of a lot classier). Having uninteresting things in the game isn't fun or good design in my opnion.
     
  13. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    There are times that I *Want* to set off traps as I walk over them. They are few, but when I am surrounded and I figure the monsters will take more damage than I do I want to just blindly walk into the minefield.

    I am still waiting for the BoMD minigun gargoyle traps. :) That will have people foaming at the mouth! :)
     
  14. BDR1985

    BDR1985 Member

    WASD trap disarming would be optional much the way autopickup is optional if I were king. Anyone who feels it's more fun to click all the traps is welcome to it.
     
  15. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    I think you may be misunderstanding what I am saying, or I may be misunderstanding you.

    Currently if you mouse click on a trap it will ask to disarm. There is no way to make the mouse move you onto the trap and risk setting it off at current. You only have the two options of disarm or not. No move option. The problem is additive in that with wasd you have no option but to move and risk setting it off.

    I would love a Shift+movement key to attempt disarming or even just pop up the menu like you had mouse clicked it. Also to fix the mouse issue, we need a third option to move over that trap anyway.

    Is that what you are wanting too?
     
  16. BDR1985

    BDR1985 Member

    There is no way to disarm traps without clicking on them. Ergo the mouse is required to (positively, as opposed to negatively) interact with the traps without using the mouse and breaking from the keyboard. Ergo it is bad design as you note and yeah, I'd be okay with something like that, but I feel that the solution would just make it even clearer how traps don't really make the dungeon harder (thus trying to think of ways to make traps more interesting).

    When I wrote interact, I think I was thinking of rolling over the trap and taking the hit not as an interaction for some reason, eh whatever.
     
  17. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Careful what you wish for. I have ideas for Diggle Trappists that lay down traps every time they move. (Massive memory hole.)
    I also thought of Clockwork Trap Dragons that breath traps around you at range. Then the traps themselves would make most here cringe.

    Traps that eat specific items like teleport potions and cast a long lasting antimagic on you...

    Traps that NegaKrong your equipped items without asking. (NegaKrongs cannot be removed ever.)

    Traps that spawn more traps that spawn more traps that spawn...... Yeah. :)

    Traps that send you instantly to level one. From anywhere. You get to walk back. :)

    Traps that align you to the Diggle God of Cursed Traps. (Gives you an eternal debuff that spawns traps around you regularly. :)

    Did I mention I am a cruel bastard? :)
     
  18. mining

    mining Member

    Consider: Spacebar to 'activate' anything in front of you i.e. trap, attack, unlock door, etc. or waste an action if its not targetting something.
     
  19. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Okay, BDR, we get what you mean now.
    It wasn't clear at first, that's why I reacted the way I did.
     
  20. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Personally, I'd like to see things go back to how they used to be with mouse movement activating traps. I suspect quite a few people would be against that though :p