New Crafting menu is horrible and other things I've noticed.

Discussion in 'Realm of the Diggle Gods' started by DavidB1111, Dec 29, 2011.

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  1. Eadeve

    Eadeve Member

    I like the new crafting system as with the old ones it was too easy to abuse the open slots for extra bag space to hold things in. Plus there were a few issues with restacking items after taking them out.
  2. jhffmn

    jhffmn Member

    You know, if you are having trouble with a particular enemy like the slimes. Perhaps you should examine your strategy a bit. There are several things you can do. You can, run away and heal up given an escape ability like knightly leap. You can rush into a pet build to help with the first few levels. You can switch to a different weapon that does crushing damage. Do you have a wand or a consumable? Elemental damage?

    At least half the time you should find one of those evil chest levers and get some uber weapon on floor 1. Just saying.

    On a side note, i've just died several times early on trying to get the hang of necroeconomics =p. Also I've learned going into a mysterious portal on floor 1 is probably a bad idea until I'm a higher level.
  3. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I just walked up to an Agar Aguardian on DL2 with a sword-wielding build and punched him in the face. I have no particular idea what the gripe is; I was doing 3-4 damage per swing (Bushido gave me +1 slashing damage every 3rd swing) and it was doing 2 to me. I killed it in a half-dozen swings and walked away down 10 HP, which I made up with some walking and some Offal. The only damage I had was 4 slashing and 1 piercing, not even any funky damage types. <shrug> Doesn't seem like a great big deal to me.
  4. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Essence, you didn't fight the normal one. You fought the weakest one, according to the game's monster stat. The next one shows up on floor 1 randomly, mostly on floor 2, and has 12 piercing and 5 slashing resistance.
    Also, the Agar is apparently, the one known for being a wizard's pet.

    Your argument seems to be "I can't be wrong, so you must be." :(
    Look, I want to enjoy a sword build. Right now, the only way to do that is edit the Monster DB to adjust their resistances to a level that not even Dredmor has. :)
    So I did. Until such a time that the creators of this game realize nothing on the first 4 levels should be more resistant to any melee attack than the FINAL BOSS, sorry, that has to be in all caps, then maybe I'll not edit the files.
    As it stands, when a monster that can show up on Dungeon level 1, that can do significant damage to you, and take less damage from your sword than the final boss of the game, that is by the very definition an overpowered monster.

    It's bad enough corruption hits all items now, and can't be fixed because of a lack of a corruption removing ability, and the completely useless "This Translation is all wrong." Yes, please give me the lost in my own museum on the first roll. Instead of making it a automatically works on the first try.
    Wait, let's just make the skill randomly useless, that's a good nerfing! <insert Picard facepalm picture here.>
    No, putting a cap on all attributes is better. Do I have to buy out Gas Lamp Games to get that done? Do I need to become a multi millionare just to have that skill worthwhile?

    Also, you basically keep forgetting I'm talking about a melee build. That means as much sorcery as a few potions and wands.
    Not pet building. If I wanted to play a game with pet monsters, I'd go play Pokemon. :) Or the Necro/Druid in Diablo 2.

    Also, you seem to forget that not everyone is going to be blindly lucky to find good items off of evil chests/uber chests early on in the game, and since the Ectoplasms can spawn on level 1, your argument doesn't work if they are in the way.
    Not to mention, you seem to have an air of slight arrogance, but hey, aren't we all.
    Also, don't know about you, but Krong rarely gives me anything useful on any item, they must have lowered his payouts...

    And they hit hard enough that running away to heal won't work unless you rush for Knightly leaping, which was moved up a skill level. I have played games of all types for over 25 of my 29 years of life. Don't you think by now, I kind of have an understanding on how games work?
    Again, artificial padding of the skill sets is a bad idea. And actually can kill a game dead.

    No one will ever convince me lockpicking is broken until they can prove it by showing the game code. :)
  5. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Wow, a lot of that seemed directed at a whole bunch of stuff I didn't say. :)

    Really, though, in the end, I have to say that if what you're griping about is a DL4 monster appearing 2-3 levels out of depth, all I have to say to that is "welcome to Roguelikes, be glad you died early". Something that realistically only happens in 8% of games and kills you when you're only a half-hour in should be considered a feature, not a bug.
    FaxCelestis likes this.
  6. Maze1125

    Maze1125 Member

    None of the cubes have greater resistances than Dredmor himself. The high piecing resistance is basically the game saying "these guys are immune to that" as you won't doing more than 10 at those levels anyway, there's nothing wrong with any enemy being completely immune to a non-mundane damage type, even on level 1, more importantly Dredmor has 20 armour, which gives him more than 6 times the slashing resistance of any of the early level cubes (which are 2 and 3 infact, not the 5 you claim). On top of which, he'll resist crushing damage too, while the cubes will only resist the slashing.

    Even the worst cubes, on levels 13 and 14, only have 18 slashing resistance, still less than Dredmor's armour.

    David, people would probably respect your opinions more if you didn't keep making factually inaccurate statements, and if you gave your opinions as opinions, rather than as facts.
  7. IanExMachina

    IanExMachina Member

    If you get the last ability in the Demonology Tree (Flames of the Heckforge) you can remove corruptions that come from enemy attacks. (Not Krong Corruptions though.)
  8. jhffmn

    jhffmn Member

    But come on david, you can just swap in a mace with crushing damage. There isn't a weapon penalty now. It's not like the cubes represent some insurmountable challenge. The game is littered with vendor trash, even on level 1 you should be able to find a random mace or staff. And with one of those equiped all of your melee damage stat gets converted to crushing damage so you should be hitting for 3-4 damage on level one. And if for some reason you run into a cube before having the tools to fight it, run away. In the next room or two you will probably find a staff or mace.

    Yes it might be a minor annoyance to you to face an enemy that requires you to deviate from your weapon spec. But things that require dynamic play to handle in my humble opinion make the game more fun.

    What you are saying basically is that you don't want to change weapons or adapt to the game when the game tosses plenty of options at you beyond just swords basic attack. Isn't that just a little unreasonable?

    In fact, couldn't you just unequip your weapon and kick it? Assuming you are a warrior build or have berserker you should be able to down the cube without too much trouble.
  9. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Argh! Okay, first off, I know I can be kind of annoying.
    But I'm not crazy here.

    I'm sorry, I really am. But I will not accept that this game has completely destroyed the point of swords/crossbows/axes because of that one enemy class.
    I should not be forced to change weapons because of one enemy in a game.

    I am sorry. But I really shouldn't be ignored because I have lots of people who over the years have trusted my opinions on things. People who have made games and game mods have trusted my opinions. So, yes, to say that I cannot have valid opinions on this game, with over a decade of helping people, is more insulting to me than anything I have said to anyone on this forum.

    I will never change my mind on my opinion that the ectoplasms should not be so hard to hurt with piercing/slashing. Because as I've said, telling me I'm wrong, insults me, and also insults a long list of people who have made games and game mods over the years. The odds that DarkGod and Valis were both wrong to accept anything I gave them, the creators of T-O-M-E and Newangband/Portalis respectfully, and the creators of various mods for Doom/Duke Nukem 3D/Morrowind/Oblivion/etc/etc are all wrong to accept my help is smaller than the odds that the sun will turn into a supernova tomorrow morning.
    Do not insult my intelligence and the intelligence of dozens of other people just because you hate me. I will list game companies who trusted my opinion. Gaslamp Games is not the only game company to acknowlege what I have said, I assure you. :)
    Mind you, the list is small, Gaslamp and Galactic Civilization's creators, Stardock? And a few online games, though, I don't know if Cybots is still around.

    Also, Dredmor may have 20 armor, but by the time you fight him, you'll do so much damage to him using crossbows and melee, that he'll die faster. Despite his 99% block chance. That's also not really an exaggeration, unless I was really unlucky, he blocked every hit. Ranged attacks actually hit for full.

    I apologize if you think I'm some sort of bad person. :( I'm not. I have Asperger's Syndrome. I have some issues relating to that. I can assure you though, I'm not insane, or evil.
    Also, there is a huge difference between making factually inaccurate statements, and misremembering things. OR getting things confused. I would like an apology for that. :(
    Because that was insulting.

    When you say it like that, yes. You do have a point.
    But I am seriously irritated by this game's addition of monsters that force you to switch to a different weapon.
    And what the hell is the point of weapon trees now if there are no penalties for different weapons? That doesn't make sense to me. That makes the game punish you for taking dual wielding now and a weapon skill for that.

    Maybe I'm going crazy. Hell, I have a mental disorder....I suppose it's only a matter of time before I go insane. :(
    Especially since everyone here hates me and hopes I die in a fire.
    I'm sorry that I'm not the type of person to accept change so readily.
    I'm sorry that I want a game to be fun for me. :(
  10. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I listed a multitude of ways to get non-slashing damage very very early previously in this thread. All you have to do is use one of those. I recommend fire bolts, poison ampoule bolts, or a wooden or rusty sword when it comes to blobbies and cubes.
    You are a hero, and as such are equally adept with all basic functions of weaponry. However, your specialization provides you benefits above and beyond the basic functions of a weapon.
  11. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    I don't have time just now to address every point raised throughout this thread, but I'll try a couple:

    1. Crafting Interface: This lacks some parts which were intended to be in, like filter buttons and better UI responsiveness. They should be coming along in patches.

    2. Agar Cubes: These are intended to trip up people relying on mundane damage output. There are many other ways to deal other kinds of damage to these guys available - the point is to get people to mix up their tactics.

    However! If you're unhappy with the resistances of the cubes, feel very free to mod their stats to something you'd enjoy more -- just edit the monDB.xml file in the expansion folder. I'm very much of a mind that if you're not having fun you should be allowed to change the game so that you will have fun, and I won't judge you for it.

    Also, everyone be chill. None of this is personal, it's just a game. I'm saying this not to point any fingers, I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page about having a friendly discussion about game mechanics.
  12. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Thank you. It's actually somewhat rare to find someone like that anymore. I've just been extremely lucky with the guys here at Gaslamp Games. :)
    I have modified some things for this game before. Mostly didn't get anything useful from doing that though, because I think Krong anvils are still not moddable. :)
    And Uberchest spawn rate.

    I finally beat the game and well, to be fair, Dredmor was hard, but decently challenging.

    As for other things. I want to apologize for riling up the mob here. I'm not that type of person. I don't like arguing. I don't like fighting, I just get tired of what I perceive as sleights against me.
    Paranoia is sometimes healthy. :)

    I apologize for my frustrations. Now then, you're right, we should get back into discussing game mechanics civilly. We are not untrained savages after all. :)

    I enjoy this game. While I do not agree with some decisions, mostly ugly crafting menu is ugly, and not adding corruption resistance/removal without putting points in a demonology tree. :) Lol, wut, demons help fix corruption? Honestly, wouldn't a Smith be better suited?
    I just hope this game, if it continues to add nice features, does eventually add in the corruption/destruction fixing nature of a good number of all other Roguelikes.
    I could name every game where bad things that happen to your equipment can be fixed, but that would be several pages long. :) OR rather, it would be almost every game ever. :)

    I do enjoy this game. That's the biggest thing I can say. I may not like all the features, but since they're mostly editable, I can't complain.

    Editing the ectoplasms fixes that complaint, so yeah, only the soon to be fixed crafting menu, the fixing of kleptoblobbies if it hasn't been fixed, and the addition of corruption removal that doesn't require you to sell your soul to Satan. :)

    But yeah, I have very few complaints about this game, besides the Ectoplasms.
    And I don't know why Fax thinks Blobbies have a resistance to slashing/piercing, unless they changed that... I still do slashing/piercing damage to them.

    So, hey look at it this way, if my complaints are addressed, I don't have anything to complain about, and Fax and others won't wish I was dead. :)
  13. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Never said anything about wishing your death, merely pointing out your errors.
  14. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Well, I admit that was an Exaggeration, but I felt it best to cover all eventualities. :) No matter how extreme.
    Best be prepared and all that.
  15. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Yes you should. In fact, I do believe one of the game devs just came on and told you specifically that making you change something about your playstyle was the entire point of the mob's existence. Saying you should be able to play through the whole game with a single weapon type is defying the entire point of not just the game, but the entire genre of roguelikes. You have to adapt constantly to what the game gives you; there is no point at which you should be able to dictate the entirety of your strategy and win by doing so. Claiming you should be able to use swords all the way through is like saying you should be able to kill everything with Promethian magic and then getting bitchy when you come across a Big Red and it eats you and your wyrmling friend for breakfast.
    BDSb and blob like this.
  16. Eadeve

    Eadeve Member

    See this is why I love this game, every time I play a new game its different in how I have to approach it and if i have to switch out dual weapons for a sword and shield for a few thats what makes it interesting.

    Also, crafting options for belt, gloves, pants is needed.
  17. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Apparently, you also like to pick fights with people. :(
    As I've said in my post above, I already apologized for my complaints, problems, and gripes. The fact that you dragged out a post that's older, and therefor no longer applicable, means you either have something against me so badly, that it makes you blind to what has been written, or you want to fight me for no reason.

    After he explained why they were added in, I begrudgingly accepted it. If you treat me with respect, like he did, and even Fax did, then I will treat you back with respect.

    And I'm sorry, but this is the first game I ever played in my life where I had to completely change the tactics of how I fight because of one monster type. There are literally no Roguelikes I know of where that happens besides this one. So, why do you and others constantly say there are. I have literally never played any game where one monster addition forces me to completely change how I play it. That's a rarity, I assure you. If you can provide me a list of games that force people to change weapons, I will be impressed if you can name anymore than this game. And D&D.

    As the Art director said, he wants people to be nice, and not fight. Why do you have something against me personally?
  18. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    I think we're done here, seeing as both devs have answered the original post's questions/grievings and the last page and a half has been nothing but arguing.
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