Windows Vista/7 64-bit Monsters are now almost passive, makes game lame.

Discussion in 'Bugs' started by rist, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. rist

    rist Member

    Monsters used to pretty much attack on sight, I have no idea if stealth did anything. Now I have a character with 30 stealth, even walking next to some monsters doesn't turn them hostile. This makes the game a lot less dangerous and therefore a lot less fun. I want things the way they used to be :(

    Also, field of whirling daggers or whatever it's called makes you counter or block the vast majority of attacks, way too good.
  2. Frandarre

    Frandarre Member

    Well, I agree with you, but before this patch the stealth had almost no purpose...
  3. rist

    rist Member

    I'd rather stealth be an active, rather than passive ability.
  4. Frandarre

    Frandarre Member

    Mhm, that'd be cool. But I have no complaints.
  5. Jellyman

    Jellyman Member

    I kind of agree here. Being able to walk circles around enemies is strange.
  6. I'd noticed that the monsters seemed much more passive than before, but wondered if that was because I was playing on Easy (achievement hunting since I'd killed Dredmor on Dwarven Moderation before)...
  7. Sanmei

    Sanmei Member

    Monsters are definitely more passive. A monster that is afraid and fleeing will now let you walk right up behind them and won't agro from your proximity.

    On the other hand, it seems like monsters do more damage and/or hit more reliably now -- I don't remember taking 3-5 damage from monsters on the first floor, and aethereal missiles from the levitating potatoes seem to do around 5-10.
  8. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    We're going to look into this.
    Exile likes this.
  9. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    I like the idea, but it (might) need some fine adjustment. It does seem to not work as well as you get deeper into the dungeon, and maybe too well early on (or maybe not -- I haven't really kept an eye on what my stealth score was at the time).
  10. Frelus

    Frelus Member

    Well, I can often pretty much dance around the DL1 critters with ~7 sneakiness.
  11. Alistaire

    Alistaire Member

    The dagger skilltree is nice, I mean; sneak attack stance gives you 25 sneakiness and 25 crit chance, only penalty is that you have lower strength, which has close to no effect with 50 sneakiness (from having some rogue skills) and 35 crit chance (making almost every hit a crit).

    That way sneaking looks greatly implemented yes, but if you see that with a knight character with 1 rogue skill it's possible to sneak your way out of an ambush, well yeah.
  12. darius404

    darius404 Member

    Hover the cursor over the monster. If it's the result of stealth, it should say "This monster has not noticed your presence." If the text says "It is peaceful and not attacking you at the moment," this is not the result of stealth. In the latter case, the monster is completely peaceful toward you until damaged, sort of like what vegans get with animals (minus the hostility once damaged) . I believe it to be a bug. I'd noticed this pretty soon after installing Conquest of the Wizardlands, but hadn't gotten around to making a thread about it.

    I made some screenshots to illustrate the difference.

    If it's because they haven't noticed you yet (because of stealth or line-of-sight):


    If it isn't hostile at all:

    peaceful bug.jpg
    Notice that I have 0 stealth, am right next to it, and yet it still isn't hostile.
  13. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    I have had the peaceful thing occur in the vanilla, but it does seem to be occurring more now.
  14. Jellyman

    Jellyman Member

    I see a lot of monsters who are peaceful towards me. Around 20% maybe.
  15. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Sometimes the monsters are inexplicably peaceful, more often they don't notice me because of stealth, and sometimes they're aware of me and the mouseover text indicates they're trying to kill me but they still don't attack. I had a potato that just stood there, diagonally adjacent and facing me as near as I could tell, and claiming that it was trying to kill me, while I slowly pushed space bar to heal up from 1 hp. IIRC, it was 8 turns of him just standing there while I digested my food, and he neither cast nor moved to attack me. It was silly.
  16. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    From my end, I've slightly increased the perception value of all monsters and I'll let Nicholas & co on the programming side handle any issues deeper in the AI.
    Exile, r_b_bergstrom and SkyMuffin like this.
  17. Turbo164

    Turbo164 Member

    Thanks for the update!

    Btw, Potatoes should get a perception bonus thanks to all of their eyes ;)
  18. SaintWacko

    SaintWacko Member

    It's a bit more difficult to bottleneck a Monster Zoo now, as the whole zoo doesn't aggro onto you the second you discover it. Of course, it's also easier to take a break to munch on corpses for health.
  19. Karock

    Karock Member

    Personally I think monster zoos are WAY more fun this way. This is because before it was either you cast something like tenebrous rift and destroy the dungeon, or you stand in one place and melee over and over and over, repeat for every non-ranged monster in the zoo until they're all gone. Now you actually have to seek them out somewhat.

    I do agree though that sneak is a little too good or something else wonky is going on. Probably a bit of both.
  20. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    I think this should be good. I think the problem for me is that attacking them doesn't lock the enemies into fighting you. When you're on floor one and doing melée, if a room of monsters runs away from you (even after being hit) then you can imagine just how frustrating it can be.