Discussion in 'Other Games' started by Loerwyn, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    From what I see, your problem is not with Forge in itself, but rather with people who, instead of just making a united base of a mod and making their mods "add-ons" for said base, create really large mods which aren't very compatible with similar stuff.

    There was a time when large mods were the only way to go if you wanted something to add many things, yes. But these were the times when mods had to be installed manually and not even half of them used Risugami's ModLoader, not to mention Forge or anything similar to it not existing, and ModLoader being the only thing close to it. But modders from that time could unite and create something big which worked.
    Now that it's possible to make one's mod into a "core" mod and 10 smaller "add-on" ones, it's actually preferable to do that and convince other people to use the very same "core" mod as their mod's "core" mod and simply make different "add-on" mods for it. But no, they don't do that for whatever reason, likely just because of communication failures.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  2. jadkni

    jadkni Member

    Well, I have some minor personal niggles with Forge itself, I just have performance issues with Forge which might just be on my end and when Mystcraft went Forge-only it put a bad taste in my mouth, as if being separate from Forge just wasn't an option anymore. But really you've got my biggest problem with Forge nailed - the modding community seems to largely want to do their own thing and make these great standalone mods, even though the whole point of Forge as I understand it is that they all play nice with and (theoretically) enrich each other. If they want to do their own thing that's all great by me, go for it - but they use Forge regardless, just to appeal to the Technic/Tekkit community as far as I can see which is so prevalent in the MC community that I daresay it might be larger than the vanilla community itself at this point.
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  3. Alistaire

    Alistaire Member

    Well, there are more Technic Pack + FTB Modpack players than people making their own custom modpack. So it would be pretty stupid to make a really good mod that's not compatible with one of those packs.

    Also, the problem with "they want to do their own thing", is that new people with creative ideas don't always know how to start modding. If there's only deprecated tutorials on vanilla modding, and top-notch tutorials on MCP (with or without FML), then yeah.


    People put time into making Forge, and it's a good API so why not use it eh?
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  4. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Actually, the tutorials aren't really deprecated; they can still be used if you wish to create mods old-style, and it will work with the only problem being that doing so will likely shoot the compatibility with other mods to hell. And you don't really need to know anything outside of where are the files with the code, along with having at least basic knowledge of how to code in Java; even then, the latter is not really required if you don't start with high-level stuff.

    I had it a bit easier because when I did it I actually had work-related experience with Java, but I didn't need any tutorials to get into it, and create mods for just the core game at first, and for ModLoader later. Of course, none of these mods were officially released because they were for the server me and my friends were playing on, but it still counts.

    That having been said, you actually replied to, well, not the thing that was really important here (though that's to be understandable, since you replied to jadkni's message which was a reply to mine, instead of replying to mine). The problem isn't with people making their own mods, it is with people not using the "mod add-on" feature of Forge to make their mods more compatible when they could do that.

    Many modders on the forum know each other. The old clique of modders (to which I, even though I had never officially released anything, belong; just like here for the time being, I guess) knew each other and was able to work together even though they didn't have Forge and thus doing so meant sending code to each other all the time and working half-blindly to make it compatible. Aether mod? Collaboration. Industrialcraft? Collaboration. And there were other mods of this sort as well.

    New modders, for the most part, know each other too. And even though they aren't as much of a clique as the old modders were, they still know each other well enough to know when they are starting to work on something which is similar to something else, but even then instead of just talking with each other and making it possible for their mods to smoothly work together, they just create as large a mod as possible without regard for that. And it's not even difficult to do it the proper way, really - the core for BuildCraft work the very same way their own mods' core part should work, namely by adding essential things which are then shared by other mods, with the other mods being able to add things which work with said "core" and thus not having duplicated things. But no, they don't do that for whatever stupid reason...

    And that having been said:
    They aren't compatible. It is just that Forge has a lot of code which is there only to make sure that said incompatibilities will not make the game explode, but it's still not the smoothest transition. Like the situation jadkni mentioned earlier where he had 3 sorts of the very same ore. Had they actually tried to make their mods compatible via segmenting them and using a shared "core", it would have just been 1 ore, and everything from all these mods using any of the aforementioned 3 ores would be using that one instead. Much more elegant solution, but it appears that people who use 30~40 mods and make mods themselves aren't able to see why would anyone want to install mods other than theirs.

    Sure, there is the "ore transformating mod", but that's not the way it ought to be.
    OmniaNigrum and jadkni like this.
  5. Konork

    Konork Member

    It isn't that they don't understand that, it's that they are all completely seperate mods, with different viewpoints on how to handle things like machinery power, ore generation, material costs, and risk/reward balances. The only real thing that's common between a lot of them are ore smashing, powered furnaces, and ores, and even those are usually drastically different between the different mods. Like silver, which comes in huge but rare veins in Factorization, but spawns in more normal iron-style veins in other mods.
    OmniaNigrum and Kazeto like this.
  6. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Even then, it's not like they can't release their mods in smaller modules. Because of the way the whole thing works in Minecraft, it's not that much more of a hassle to do it over releasing their mods normally, and it would at least allow people who for whatever reason want to have more than one mod which adds that, not to torment the game's world generation function with more additional stuff to generate than would be necessary had they just been able to use one of these mods' ore generation and just use said ore with both mods.

    You are right, though. I shouldn't implicate that they don't understand if there is a possibility of them being aware of it. And the fact that I'm feeling annoyed comes from the time when we were really limited in terms of item and block IDs, so having to install two sets of ore would have been be a rage-worthy waste of those.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  7. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    Gotta admit I've fallen back in love with Minceraft. I don't know how many hours I've put in recently, but I'm not sure I want to know.

    I think it's one of those games that works well if you use reference materials alongside exploring for yourself, and just trying things out at your own pace. So instead of doing the ultra-efficient mechanisms that some would do, I make small, crude ones for myself. I have ugly bases, I set myself on fire, I fall into lava (okay I try not to), etc. But in the past couple of days I've built my first farms, I'm still in the middle of exploring a cave system, I've tried fishing, I've mined diamonds and made a diamond pickaxe, I've named a sword, I've started to use pressure plates, created and utilised an anvil and so on. I've found a skin I like, which is also helping.

    I don't think I'm quite ready for even basic mechanisms yet, though. And that's okay. You can play Minecraft how you want.
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  8. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Yup, that's pretty much it.

    And after you become capable of creating simple mechanisms, I recommend a mod called "RedPower 2" by Eloraam. It's not available for the newest version (which is why the server on which me and my friends play is a 1.4.7 one), but it really is a great mod if you enjoy creating weird mechanisms. You don't even have to get the "world generation" and "mechanisms" part, just the core (for redstone wiring) and the logic gates are enough to make things crazier.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  9. Dratai

    Dratai Member

    If we're talking mods for minecraft.
    A decent collection is the "feed the beast" pack..
    Has it's own installer and everything. And a selection of 'packs' that can be activated depending on your preference for the available mods and utilities in it.
    In particular I play on a server on it, once again, that runs the mindcrack pack, from feed the beast.

    Unfortunately, it -can- be a bit frustrating on account of how much content there is in it. Ridiculous levels.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  10. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    Loaded game.


    Gosh-darned creepers all up in my shit.

    Daynab and Kazeto like this.
  11. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    Do you always dress your ducks up in bow-ties? Having a formal affair on the farm, are we?
  12. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    They're chickens.
  13. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    Then let me rephrase that -- do you always dress your chickens up like Ducks with bow-ties? Is it Halloween again already?
    Turbo164 likes this.
  14. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.
  15. Dratai

    Dratai Member

    You came to the wrong neighborhood, doctor?

    Quack quack quack.
  16. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Due to the low resolution of the texture pack she uses, the chickens' wattles look like that.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  17. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    I'm using the default texture pack.
  18. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Yes, you are.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  19. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    New skin:

    Today's events:

    So many deaths, so much good stuff lost. But after a few bad runs, some bad world gens, I eventually got a new world I'm happy with, so I'm just spelunking in this new cave system I found near my new house. And I'm finally - stupidly, even - trying to build a smaller base within the cave system that I can hot-foot it back to without needing to surface to empty my inventory. All it needs now is an extension for a bed, and maybe some more chests.

    Gotta say I also absolutely hate skeleton archers. They fire really quickly and have a knockback, so even *two* can be quite frustrating. Oh and I've killed a spider jockey.
    Kazeto likes this.
  20. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Yeah, they are annoying. I don't particularly care about them because I am using a movement mod ("Smart Moving") which allows me to side-step when sprinting and thus avoid their arrows if I time it right, but yeah.

    Not that they are on top of the "annoyance ranking" for me - due to the fact that the server I have does have two or three mods with additional monsters running there are a few bigger threats. Like the wisps from that corrupted core near the tower I started building, or umber hulks, or those accursed (an expression of annoyance, not a part of their title/name) cockatrices. Well, or mimics, but there is a small chance they'll be normal chests instead which means one can be rewarded instead of hurt - though that also is why they are annoying instead, as before you try to open them they can't be hurt normally, and it would be stupid to explode something that can be a legitimate chest with free stuff.

    And honestly, there was a time when I genuinely "panicked" after seeing a cockatrice (in a totally dark cavern I had no way to return from after I fell) - my friends who heard my reactions and comments over the voice chat were quite amused.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.