Lord Dredmor 2.0

Discussion in 'Realm of the Diggle Gods' started by J-Factor, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    I'm... 95% sure monsters do not scale to YOUR level, no.
  2. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member



    This is just overkill, man. Dredmor already kills melee characters dead; with that much health, and immunity to everything except direct damage, AND extreme elemental resistances, that's all the caster builds dead as well.

    I don't think he's killable with those stats...
  3. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Not killable? Are you insane? He has two or three obvious holes in his defenses. Archers can EASILY utilize more than 10 :dmg_piercing: . And that is with plain ammo. :dmg_piercing: is not effected by :armor_asorb: at all too.

    And even melee builds can easily capitalize on this. It may take time, but would you rather one-shot him with a Dwarven Wiffle Maul?
    Exile likes this.
  4. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Still, I'd rather not face him with those stats. :(
    Plus, with his block, it reduces damage, including piercing, by at least 50% if not more.
    An Archer would have to do at least 20 damage to deal 10. And that 10 would be negated by the 10 piercing resistance.
    I believe some elemental damages are not effected by block, so you do still have Righteousness. However, without an uberchest bolt-thrower with at least 16 righteousness added on, you're going to have to rely on the best known arrows possible. And I don't mean bolts of mass destruction. I mean a certain type of steel bolts or whatever else there are that deal absurd piercing damage.

    Then you have to count on critical hits all the time, to negate the block, I believe ranged Crits trump block. So, crits will hit him for the full damage.
    All in all, unless you have around 240 of the best arrows, and the ability to hit him constantly with a easy target curse, :) he's going to take a long time to fall dead.
    At the moment, in this game, even with 50 EDR, normal monsters dodge all the time.
    He does have way too much stats. They need to figure a way to make the stats of a monster more editable then just levels of warrior/rouge/wizard.

    Because that's probably alone what makes him near Superman levels.
  5. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    I thought :dmg_piercing: ignored or negated blocking too? I will have to test this now.
    Exile likes this.
  6. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    I don't think it does. Otherwise Arch-Diggles would do a lot more than 0 damage to me on a block with 32 AA and 15 piercing resist. :)
    Or maybe it's currently, a crit that does 2 damage.
    They have 20 slashing and 20 piercing. And a crit does like 6. If pierce negated block I don't think a block would do 0. :)
  7. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    IIRC, blocking reduces all basic damage, which is damage affected by :armor_asorb:, by 75% and exotic damages by 50%.
    OmniNegro likes this.
  8. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Hmmm. The :block: mechanic is not so clear to my eyes. I trust you, but how would I derive this without you telling me? I know :armor_asorb: is explained poorly, but all the exotic damages say they are not effected by :armor_asorb:.

    To quote the Wiki:
    "The Block Chance stat is equivalent to the percentage chance you have as a defender to block, taking a fraction of the damage from a melee attack that could have been partially mitigated with Armour Absorption. Critical hits cannot be blocked, and performing either a dodge or a counterattack precludes blocking."

    The in game text is even more cryptic:
    "Block Chance affects how likely you are to (mostly) block what you deserve, at least so far as physical attacks go."


    I would appreciate hearing where I could go to get a more clear understanding, without having to read every post in the changelog and forum for a detailed explanation. (Presuming there is a file in the game data that explains how this all works.)
    Exile likes this.
  9. J-Factor

    J-Factor Member

    There isn't.

    Almost all of the low-level game mechanics have been figured out by the community through trial and error or the occasional hint from a dev.

    Also, Lord Dredmor is immune to DOTs because he has > :magic_resist:100. He'll still get the debuff associated with the DOT but not the damage. This also means he can't be knocked back, locked down or a few other status effects that can be resisted.
    Wi§p likes this.
  10. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Thanks for the clarifications Lorrelian and J-Factor.

    So for Dredmor, you would need to do at least 21:dmg_piercing:, 2:dmg_acidic:, 2:dmg_aethereal: or 2:dmg_righteous: to do one damage to him?
    (I am only listing exotics, since they are pretty easy to get, and basic damages would be at a major disadvantage for obvious reasons.)

    *Edit* If the above is correct, he is still a pushover.
    Exile likes this.
  11. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    He's still a pushover? With only three damage types that actually hurt him, and over a thousand HP? Are you kidding me?

    Getting exotic damage types basically requires artifacts, which have very random stats, and since there are like ten types of exotic damage it's a crapshoot as to if you're going to get something that can hurt him at all.

    I mean, I'm all for Dredmor being challenging, but he should still be defeatable with builds that don't take Archery, Killer Vegan, Emomancy, or Archaeology.

    Also, there's the whole "the game should be winnable without consulting the wiki" thing.
  12. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Getting a good xbow that has ~20 :dmg_piercing: is plainly easy even in a vanilla game. Couple that with several hundred good bolts and he is toast. All you need is a means to teleport and heal.

    I have had characters on level four of the dungeon that could put out ~30 :dmg_piercing: or ~15 :dmg_righteous: via melee every turn. And those were casters playing GR NTTG.

    Am I just lucky? (Please answer, this is not sarcasm. I thought this was pretty common.)
    Exile likes this.
  13. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Yes, you are very lucky, I'm afraid.
    Most of the time in this game I've spent, I've rarely reached a threshold, even with dual wielding, of doing significant damage with more than basic damage types, and piercing. Evil Chests and Uberchests help a ton when I get a good one.

    Also, Shouldn't 100 magic resist mean he takes zero damage from any spell? After all, if he's immune to the actual DoT, how could he not also be immune to every damage from spells, due to how magic resist works. Unless 100 magic Resist is not 100% immunity to magic, despite it's description implying that it's like 100 dodge, 100 counter, and 100 block? 100 counter = immunity to melee damage, except under certain situations, right?

    Also, J-Factor, please explain where you got the 16% chance to hit him. I'm not sure how that works.
    Also, as I've stated, people, including Danyab have hurt him in the game after his buffing, so, maybe your formula is not 100% correct?
    He's been defeated by one person at the very least, with his 1100 health. Although, that was a save from when he had much lower current health, and it took around twice as many bolts at that time to kill him.
  14. J-Factor

    J-Factor Member

    :magic_resist: is exactly the same as :block: except for spell damage. It divides :dmg_crushing::dmg_slashing::dmg_blast: by 4 and all other damage types by 2, before applying specific resistances. It additionally blocks most side effects (corruption, paralysis, knockback, etc.) and prevents DOTs from triggering.

    16% chance to hit him in melee assumes you have :edr: 0. It is calculated by:

    33% chance for him not to dodge × 51% not to counter (after the failed doge) = 16%​

    I've tested fighting him with decent stats ( :melee_power:100 :block:100 :counter:50 :dodge:50 :edr:60 :magic_resist:50) and it's looking pretty grim for melee players. Try it yourself - I've attached a mod that adds the 'fight lord dredmor' skill I've been using for testing. The first ability summons Lord Dredmor and buffs yourself with decent stats (and 10000 health/mana).

    Attached Files:

    OmniNegro likes this.
  15. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    This was one of those little presents from Nicholas (like corruption effects). I'll cut Dredmor's stats down for the patch final.
    Exile, Wi§p, Kazeto and 2 others like this.
  16. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Thank you. And while you're at it, tell Nicholas to cut down a tree with a herring, preferably red. :) I think that's a fair enough punishment. :)
  17. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    I vote for telling him to cut down a tree with lutefisk. Though I doubt he'd be able to cut anything larger than a bush, considering what lutefisk is.
    But then again, there's always the possibility that he is simply overworked and needs some sleep.
    DavidB1111 likes this.
  18. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    True, he could have been overworked, and needs sleep.
    In which case, all is forgiven.
    I'm not one to hold a grudge. Especially with overworked people.
    Kazeto likes this.
  19. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Yeah, but lutefisk would probably be able to wilt or dissolve a tree, so that's something.
    Wi§p and Kazeto like this.
  20. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    I've tried the new Dredmor that's in RC9 currently. Still tough but I believe he's killable now in melee. My non-artifact 20-ish damage weapons could dent him for maybe 5% each hit, so good evil chest weapons should be able to do something like 10% or more.
    I could shrug off most of his spells, and once I used some consumables and buffed myself I was able to stand toe to toe for a while.