ALPHA 48C Long-Run Colony of Hellish-Pleasure

Discussion in 'Clockwork Empires General' started by Alavaria, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    Newest version (48-C)

    Long-Run Colony of Hellish-Pleasure

    (This is only the food complex, the other workshops basically all fit around a 7x7 stockpile which is located elsewhere.

    I was gonna build but you try fitting in 8 farms which are 14x14 in an orderly fashion when you can't flatten terrain. Yeah, I thought so...

    A quote for context:
    Currently I seem to start with 7 people, but only 6 overseers (1 is a lower-class in our 6 dwarves). So let's go with 24 Middle-Class and 76 Lower-Class.


    Version47A count, see bottom for the latest (v48) estimates)
    Building/workcrew count:
    Wheat Farms 2
    Pumpkin Farms 2
    Kitchens 2

    Iron Mine 1
    Metalworks 2 (1 smelter, 1 processor&puller)

    Wood Farms 3
    Carpentry 1

    Flax Farm 1
    Textile Workshop 1

    Ceramics Workshop 1

    Military 3

    Total overseers 19 (out of 24)

    Can optionally add:
    Diplo 1
    Chapel 1


    Wheat 76 a day => feed 76 Basic (Bread)**
    Pumpkin 48 a day => feed 24 Quality (Farmers' Stew)
    Logs (Planks => Bed repairs) and (Charcoal => Iron Parts for oven repair)***
    Flax (Cloth => Bed repairs)

    **You can get by on just 2 14x14 wheat farms thanks to farm upgrades and overseer skill (Jolly good or better)
    ***An estimate based on looking at how my repair needs of a 50-person outstripped a single 14x14, so with 100 you would need more than 2. Here you are constrained by the maximum output of your farm space, not the workers.


    Iron ore for iron parts
    Clay for Bricks => oven repair

    You shouldn't have to scale your mine up, but 5 mineshafts and a full crew should get you more than you need. As long as miners are not wandering across the map before returning to drop their output.

    Hopefully iron smelting crucibles etc do not need brass to repair, they take a brass cog to make.


    Kitchen #1 has a massive Make Bread order (ideally infinite, let us say 500).

    Kitchen #2 has a specific pair of orders
    First: Make Bread, Minimum of 300 (less than Kitchen 1)
    Second: Make Farmers' Stew, Minimum of infinite (or just say 125)

    FYI, these all have Iron Ovens (because you can infinitely obtain iron consistently). I recommend having extra ovens to be used when some break down.


    The main metalworks consists of multiple smelters & charcoal kilns. It has:
    First: Smelt Iron Ingot (ideally infinite, let us use 50)
    Second: Make Charcoal (something like 25 is good here)
    Depending on the module changes, your five workers here should be able to make all the charcoal and smelt all the iron you need... 3 smelters and 3 charcoal kilns (all iron)... add a smithing forge and workbench for convenience.

    The puller consists of just 2 smithing forges (a 3x3 works), it pulls iron ingots from (wherever) and creates iron pipes/plates, depositing them in a stockpile near the kitchen for quick repairs.
    First: Make Iron Pipes (say 10)
    Second: Make Iron Plates (say 10)
    You can probably interleave and have 5,5, then 10,10 then 15,15 etc but meh


    Ceramics Workshop
    The ceramics ideally is next to the metalworks, it just makes bricks, glass is fine too, but make sure some bricks is on top.
    First: Make bricks (say 50)
    Second: Make glass panes (infinite)
    Third: Make bricks (infinite)

    You should be ok with 2 ceramics kilns and of course a workbench.


    Textile Workshop:
    Make cloth (infinite)


    Carpentry Workshop
    Make Planks (50 or so)


    An estimate. With no altar, a full crew should be able to satisfy all the Take Confession jobs. But instead perhaps don't have a chapel and just shoot people who start cults, goodness knows the colony is large enough to take it...
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  2. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    Components of happiness:

    Need some help on this one.

    Beds: Middle-class beds in a Wonderful building.
    We need 100% of this as lower-class will take up any bed. Overseers will get more happiness all the way up to this limit (and who would spam upper-class beds, that's silly.)

    Food: We want "quality food" (Farmers' Stew) for the overseers.
    "Basic food" (Load of Bread) for lower-class is fine, I've been told they will not go for the Farmers' Stew if they have Bread available.

    Workshop Quality: No workshop should be below "typical" (which is neutral).
    Better is fine, but since all farmers etc don't have a workshop, it isn't necessary. Just avoid having people becoming unhappy by working in their workshop.

    Chapel: No idea.
    Does Take Confession make colonists happy? If we had the luxury, I would shoot overseers with Spiritually Inclined so they won't be unhappy when I refuse chapel. But leaving lower-class with that trait is fine.
    It seems that if colonists are not Spiritually Inclined, not having a chapel doesn't make them unhappy (so it's neutral).
    While Listen to Sermon ma make colonists happier, that leaves the majority of colonists unaffected, so if you look at workshop above, it doesn't raise your "minimum happiness".

    Pub & Booze:
    Is the Public House working?
    I think just drinking the booze will make some memories fade, which if we're keeping colonists generally +happy isn't helping.

    Shifts Off:
    I've been running people with 1 shift off (and it isn't shift 5of8). Sometimes colonists seem to not get to sleep in their shift and they are unhappy the next day, so switching to 2 shifts off might work better once you can get along without squeezing out all the productivity from the workers (but this might mean using 3 wheat farms instead of 2, and similar for pumpkins, quite a cost)
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  3. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    v47c: Well I'll be...
    Got my work cut out for me now.
  4. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Yep! We have completely trashed everything.
    Alavaria and Unforked like this.
  5. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    Ah yes this is good... a natural way to make happiness count

    EDIT: Because the above were estimated from colonists working 7 out of 8 shifts, whereas now they will work like 5... it might not be possible to close the loop due to the need for even more farms for food and logs. And probably a third kitchen too...
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  6. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    My best estimates for 47C (extrapolating a bit, the slowdown is painful) are close but still doable:


    Wheat Farms 3
    Pumpkin Farms 3
    Kitchens 3

    Iron Mine 1
    Metalworks 2*** (1 smelter, 1 processor&puller)

    Wood Farms 2 Overseers (but 4 or so farms**)
    Carpentry 1

    Flax Farm 1
    Textile Workshop 1

    Ceramics Workshop 1

    Military 3

    Total overseers 21 (out of 24)

    Can optionally add:
    Diplo 1
    Chapel 1
    Pub 1

    For 24 of 24.

    But wait, there's hauling to be done (which is probably fine) and you also need some workcrews to do repairing...

    **As plants do not spoil in 47C, you can have a work crew farm up one set of bamboo, then (as it takes a long time to grow in the later stages) switch to a second one, etc etc. This is because a 5-man is too much for a single 14x14 bamboo farm. So two groups working 4 farms should suffice.

    ***The use of action bar to smelt ingots and make charcoal means you probably can't get away with a single workcrew to produce enough iron parts to repair all the ovens needed for 100 meals a day.

    So yes, this does mean that your 100 person colony would have like 45 people farming and cooking. If you switched to just Bread, it would probably go down to 4 Wheat Farms and 2 Kitchens, so 30 people...


    While your workshops (especially the farm and metalworks) can be spammed with decor to help increase happiness, note that all your farms and (I think) the mine do not benefit from this. Which is a bit of a pity as you have a lot of people tied up farming (9 workgroups in total)

    EDIT: Testing this is on hold thanks to the slowdown issue (should be fixed in next version)
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  7. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    Working on this now with v48.

    Based on my FEELINGS and MAGIC though (and checking my production), I would say you only need 2 Wheat/Maize farms to supply your basic food and 2 Pumpkin farms for Farmers' Stew. And probably 2 kitchens (and not even both full) thanks to the cooked food doubling added in v47D (and is in v48)

    Also the strain on your metalworks/mines is halved, as your maintanance is only for 50+ uses of ovens a day as opposed to 100+ for a 100-colonist setup.

    (You need only half the logs for charcoal for iron parts, but obviously your need for Planks and Flax for Cloth to repair beds is unchanged.)


    Basically, the workshift changes in general reduced productivity, however in critical parts the doubling of cooked food did these (good things):
    1. Half amount of raw food needed (and thus, farmers)
    2. Half amount of cooking being done (and thus, cooks)
    3. Half amount of repairs to iron ovens (and thus, the metalworks, log farm and iron mine)

    For a number of other workshops which are less productive... yeah they were probably not being near to using 100% of their capacity so they should be fine. Certainly if you are using 3-4 man crews (in a bunch of cases I only was going to use 2 carpenters, texile makers etc)
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  8. grayfox687

    grayfox687 Member

    I noticed that my overseers in my most recent runthrough (R48) were having a "restful experience" sleeping in a wonderful lower class bunkhouse on a cot.

    It would seem the foul ideals of communism have begun to permeate the middle class.

    I also think my posts get more silly as I get more tired.
  9. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    They get a different (and better) experience in a wonderful practical single bed ("How restful!")

    It's basically, that they look at.
    1. Quality of the building***
    2. Type of bed (so either a cot or a practical single bed for most of them)

    *cough* note the "restful experience" and "how restful!" are just text descriptions. In particular, the values of happiness were changed.

    If I understand correctly, moving from "Wonderful+Cot" to "Wonderful+PracticalSingleBed" should give you a nice big bump in happiness. Basically, the rebalance gives you three nice big sources for bumps in happiness for overseers:
    1. Having a building at +6 (Wonderful) compared to Typical (-1 to 1)
    2. Having a Practical Single Bed compared to a cot
    3. Having Quality Food (eg: Farmers' Stew) instead of Basic Food (eg: Maize Chowder, Bread)

    These were roughly in order of difficulty. However now the changes mean I think you'd go #1, #3 and then only #2. But this is rather meaningless as I'd probably be starting up the big pumpkin production as well as flax at the same time, and getting both done at the same time, however you'll probably take longer to produce all the beds (as I have 1 person working on textiles who must make all the cloth and bed modules).

    ***While you see my screenshots show things like using the Middle Class Home (instead of Lower Class Bunkhouse) and the Ornate Door instead of Wooden Door, uh these don't actually do anything for building quality in v48, it's just me having fun...
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  10. grayfox687

    grayfox687 Member

    Good to know
  11. Alavaria

    Alavaria Member

    version 48C

    A major change, which also makes things nice and easy.

    Say we have 100 colonists, of which 25 are overseers. We're making Quality Food for the overseers.

    Food Production

    We will need 62.5 raw food, let's assume we're going 100% Pumpkins. I'll just take a guess of the middle-skill and teched-up pumpkin farmer. 3 per day.

    This means about 20 farmers (4 farms) which isn't too bad in a colony of 100.

    We will need between 1 and 2 kitchens (1 with Expert overseer may suffice, if cutting it a bit close)


    First Order Maintenance: Heaviest Use.


    We are cooking 50 times a day (12.5 Cook Farmers' Stew, and 37.5 Cook Basic Food).
    On average this means 1.67 oven break downs a day.
    An oven break down will require 1 crate of bricks to repair

    We need 1.67 bricks a day, or just 0.83 clay a day from the mines. Easy.

    For reference, a mine I have is as follows:
    • 4/8: Iron ore
    • 2/8: Coal
    • 1/8 Clay
    • 1/8 Sand

    So if I manage 6.64 mining actions a day, that should be perfect. It's possible to switch to a non-specialized mine, which would have a higher yield of clay.



    We have beds being used 100 times a day.
    On average 3.4 (rounded up a bit) breakdowns per day.
    Each bed needs 1 plank to repair.
    So that means 3.4 planks a day, or 1.7 logs a day.

    For a log farm with harvest of 32 logs every 200 units of labor, I need to put in 12.625 units of labor a day from my farmers. Easy. 1 farm.

    That's for the first order maintenance.


    Second order concerns:
    • Mineshaft modules (?? haven't seen this break yet)
    • Ceramics kiln use (this needs iron parts, if it is iron)
    • Carpentry workbench
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
    Samut likes this.