Kickstarter Thread

Discussion in 'Other Games' started by Godwin, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    Surely time would be better spent on social media and doing interviews than preaching to the crowd? Seems like there's little point posting updates on KS when you could be working on getting word out there.

    Edit: I've actually pulled out of Kaiju-A-Go-Go. I don't think Kerberos are going to make it and I'm not entirely sure I want it. Over half left to achieve with 12 days. If they do, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
  2. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    I could understand receiving more than one a week for a game that hasn't been funded yet. At what point I would get annoyed would depend on the nature of each update. Obviously, they want you to be excited about the game, and to the extent that I've already given them money, I'm at least interested in their progress. So I'd want an update whenever funding is achieved, and when a stretch goal is achieved, when they add new stretch goals, and when the deadline is approaching, I'd expect maybe daily updates, but only at that stage.

    BTW, I've gotten updates on kickstarter projects months or a year after the failed kickstarter, to update me on their progress in obtaining alternate funding or a publisher or showing artwork that was never before seen because they project died.. That's actually kind of cool, imho. But I must confess that when that's happened recently, I said to myself 'what project was that? I don't remember funding that...' lol. My brain is swiss cheese.
  3. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    But there is social media exposure and interviews for those with established reputations (Kerberos, for example). It's not an either/or deal. I see articles all the time on various websites talking about this kickstarter or that one. So it's happening just not so much on mainstream websites. I'm sure that they get what they can get. There's also such a thing as overexposure, btw, which can backfire.
  4. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    I feel KS updates could well be weekly, but bi-weekly is fine. Monthly I think is too long. And that's coming from a guy with more than 200 backed projects.

    If your inbox is cluttered just redirect them to their own folder. I do, and then go through them when I feel like it.

    About Dungeonmans, played it, shows definite promise :)
  5. Well, Kaiju Redux made it! (The one on KS didn't reach its goal as Loerwyn predicted, but the reduced reboot on Indiegogo did). With at least six days to go, as well.

    It is KP's first campaign to fully reach its goal. Hopefully their supporters will continue to grow, so the scope and depth of the Pit 2 can be amazing. I mean, since GLG is busy working on things not DoD 2 for some reason. :p
    Kazeto likes this.
  6. Nettle Soup

    Nettle Soup Member

    Haha, I totally missed that they'd made a second one, my activity feed was so full of Reading Rainbow.
    Kazeto likes this.
  7. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    M.O.R.E., the 4x space game, has an additional kickstarter up to get some nice extra features into the game. They also have a nice video showcasing some of what they've been doing so far.
    I pledged again :) For some reason I just really want these guys to succeed and make an awesome game :)
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  8. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    I backed the first one, but I cannot bring myself to back what sounds like a cash grab. The only thing they have as a possibility with this one requires the whole 50K they will never get. (The "Advanced Space Battles" meaning you can target systems of ships instead of just ships.)

    I no longer have any faith in this project.
  9. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    A game I backed delivered this weekend, and today I got all the minis glued up. "Shadows of Brimstone". It's a cooperative tabletop miniatures roguelike in the wild west (and other worlds if you go through one of the portals). Basically cowboys vs Cthulhu, very Deadlands-esque. Shadows of Brimstone should be available in stores very soon. I highly recommend it if you like tabletop gaming at all. I've played it twice now, and I think I'm in love. The learning curve is less intimidating than Myth, and the character progression and campaign mode is much better than either that game or Galaxy Defenders. Plus, y'know, how can you resist cowboys vs Cthulhu!?
    The game is awesome, but boy does it take a while to assemble those minis.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  10. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    Sounds like fun,
    r_b_bergstrom :)

    With all respect to your opinions, I wonder where you got the idea of a cash grab..
    Being in the industry myself now what you just said there is an attitude I see quite often and which is something that genuinely surprises me (hm, thought: maybe this is off-topic, if so and you'd like to reply we should maybe do that somewhere else).

    Maybe you've done your research, but I have followed this project too and haven't come across any red flags. I am not saying you're wrong, I am merely saying I don't know and wonder if you do know.

    A little background:
    I feel I am a really honest person. Integrity is a core principle of mine. I try to always do what is right no matter how much pain or discomfort or trouble it may give me. I feel the most important thing in life is doing what's best for everyone, from everyone's standpoint (not just my own!). I wouldn't work for a company that conflicts with those core values of mine.
    That being said, people sometimes say things about us on forums that really suggest we are evil, selfish, lazy, cheap, abusive and we want to squeeze people out of their money while telling them lies...
    (Don't get me wrong, it's a huge minority and people in general are really happy with us!)
    .. and I don't get that!

    Sure, I understand you can be frustrated and such about things. But to actually, without any foundation, assume we are evil/out for money alone etc..?

    Is that merely because of the way some companies treated you, and then finding some superficial similarities and assuming the worst?

    It seems to me to be quite common in the games industry that people work really hard for little and after producing a labor of love to have to file for bankruptcy. Probably way more so for kickstarter projects. And it's not just 'oh bankruptcy': you may have to move, you may have to spend a year trying to get a job, you may have to postpone your plans to get children, you may have to see your girlfriend leave you because.. what future can you offer her?
    The reason why people do that still is because of passion or love for the game and for the process of making a game.
    If you then see an opportunity to make that game, your passion-project or labor of love even better, I do not think it constitutes as a "cash grab".

    The guys from M.O.R.E. said very clearly in multiple places that they don't expect nor even ask existing backers to pledge again.
    They've shown a video and have been responsive when PM'ed through kickstarter (personal experience), even when they didn't put out updates (which they told us not to expect, I think it might be a cultural thing, or at least it was how they chose to handle things).

    Their goal is 10K by the way, not 50K, that's the highest stretch goal. I don't think asking on kickstarter for 10K up to 50K by launching a second campaign can be a cash grab... To me that expression conveys that they take it against people's wishes. Due to the nature of kickstarter that's impossible.
    If the argument is that they present such a good story that you get fooled/conned into giving them the money then
    a) they still have to do that with malicious intend and not actually deliver for it to be a cash grab
    b) you are actually giving away your responsability to them which is a bad idea; you're basically saying: I can't help it I am forced to pledge since they offer X. But that actually means you want to pledge and you cannot get your own mind straight and make a clear conscious choice, apparently.

    Well, not saying this to you OmniaNigrum, but just elaborating on my surprise about attitudes like this in general.

    So I guess my question is: what happened that made you feel it was a cash grab?
    And I am genuinely interested in the answer :)

    By the way, a good read imho:
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  11. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    They claim to be "adding benefits" to the existing ones we backers already paid for. That is fine, but I see the pricing and what is offered for how much and cannot help but think they are just doing a cash grab. I could be way off base. And they could legitimately mean to do exactly what they say, but my inclination is not to trust someone asking me to effectively pay more for something I already bought.

    As for the 50k thing, well none of the other goals are of any interest to me, making me less motivated to contribute more unless they get massive amounts that put it near the 50k goal.

    I still think the game when done will be a great game. I just think they could have went a whole different way. Perhaps time and money are a hindrance at the moment and this is the best way from their prospective. I will likely never know.

    I should point out that they do say the following:
    As for what I could pay to get something from this, the only thing I even come close to wanting is the DLC package, and that is $55. And since there may not even be DLC for years, and the pricing scheme for backers is a bit confusing, I will probably just wait until it is said and done. And that is a shame if they actually need the cash now.

    But again, I could be entirely wrong to think this way.
    Godwin likes this.
  12. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    BTW, I'm also a backer, and I'm not backing the second kickstarter, not because I'm cynical about their motives, but because I already contributed what I felt I wanted to.

    That said, it's good to have doubts. But it's far different to doubt someone than it is to actually accuse someone of bad motives without actual evidence. Caution is a good thing. There's always a risk involved, regardless, because things do go wrong. I actually think that of things that could go wrong, underestimating the difficulty and size of a project is not out of the realm of possibilities. That could be caused by a lot of different things, from feature creep, to unexpected changes in circumstance, to over-confidence, or even a lack of experience. Projects DO go over budget. It happens. And the fact that it happens, makes me loathe to accuse anyone of greed or misbehavior. I'm not saying that such a thing is impossible. I just don't think that it's the most likely explanation. Apparently, you lost faith in the devs, and that happens. It's your money and if you have doubts, you are doing the logical thing by not giving them any more.
    Godwin and OmniaNigrum like this.
  13. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Another thing that slipped my mind. The original M.O.R.E. kickstarter ended on October 28th, 2012. And they have not only changed game engines since then, but a plethora of other things. (Most inconsequential.)

    When a developer changes game engines, I take that as either them saying they ran into trouble that was more difficult to fix than to rebuild the whole game, or that they just wanted to start from scratch. Some resources and many ideas can easily be moved over to the new engine, and Unity is actually a very impressive engine. But the cold hard wait and anticipated release date of December of 2015 leaves me feeling skeptical of even the best news.

    Still, as I said, I expect it will be a great game when it is done. But I have to acknowledge that if they add on more stuff before launch, the launch will almost certainly have to be moved further into the future.

    *Edit* And the fact is I feel cheated by the Advanced Space Battles part. That was one of the stretch goals in the original kickstarter that managed over 90K of the 50K they had as the original goal. At 95K the stretch goal was guess what? The Advanced Space Battles. So with the new kickstarter it feels like they are saying that since we were so close, we may as well give them an extra 45K for some other junk before they will do what an extra 5k on the first one would have done...
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
    Godwin and Haldurson like this.
  14. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    Thank you both for your answers. I think I understand now.
    I think I would use different words and such, but your reservations seem logical.
    I don't share them, but certainly respect and understand them.

    As to your last edit Omni, I think that's a valuable addition. I can see how you come to a conclusion of a cash grab that way. I can also see how they, almost 2 years later with a game much more fleshed out etc. have a far better understanding of the value of money versus feature and how they reevaluated the cost.

    End of offtopic so far as I'm concerned :) Thanks again :)
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  15. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    Well this is highly interesting!
    I especially love the star system view he showcases at the end and I just love how they don't compromise ("it's a pc game, you'll need both mouse and keyboard").
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  16. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    This is really looking great.. just check out all these settings :D

    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  17. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Agreed. That looks far better than I expected. The ability to generate and share galactic seeds could be very nice. (Much like DoD's Wizardworlds.)

    And at this rate, they will likely succeed at the kickstarter and get a bit more funding. I will wait until it is nearly done and see what I can throw in their direction.
  18. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    Thanks for the heads up, had bookmarked it, so also just today got the reminder email. ^^
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  19. Godwin

    Godwin Member

    I skipped a few as I don't want to spam, but they're still going strong.
    This video update is a true gem for those with attention to detail: you can really see how much of a labour of love this game is and how they really think about making it as easy as possible for players to customize the way they want to play with their notification settings for example.

    Check it out:

    Also, next time they will show spaceship construction and spacebattles! :)
    OmniaNigrum likes this.