I hate Steam. Can someone explain if Gamefly is the same or different?

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by OmniaNigrum, Apr 2, 2012.

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  1. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    It only says that many people either couldn't pay at all, or were assholes. Because there are people who even pirate free stuff, "just because".

    Oh, and Steam can be set to allow you to run games when you're offline. It's most probably a pain in the behind to set up, but it is possible. Not to mention that at least some games can be run by simply launching them directly instead of doing it through the steam shortcut.
  2. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    How exactly is it pirating if the items "Stolen" are free?

    There are a number of things I will download via torrents despite them being fully free. If you listen to the RIAA/MPAA then 100% of torrent traffic is illicit. Thus they are calling me a thief.

    For the same reason that I prefer torrents over http/ftp, I suggested people *Not* download the 693KB plain text manual to TomeNET earlier. I was linking in the HTTP version of the index, and it is tiny. But if a thousand people all grabbed the full manual for no reason, that amounts to loads of wasted bandwidth that they have to pay for.

    So I am the opposite of a thief. I care not only for what I download, but also for what I link to and let others download.

    Some few of those who grabbed the torrents for the HIB stuff had already purchased it and were legally able to use it on any system they owned. If they had no other way to get the content to that system, they may have resorted to the torrent. (Work PC not networked to their home PC perhaps?)

    The point is that you cannot look at a smoking gun in the hands of a person standing over a corpse and say they killed the now dead person. You are smart enough to know that there is still the burden of proof and reason. It could have been self defense, or it could be murder. They could have been trying to shoot the invisible parasite that was on the dead person's head. (I.E. Insanity) They could even have shot at the person who did kill the person at their feet, but you just did not see that part.
  3. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    A perfect example of an entirely free game that probably looks illicit until you bother to read the details is this one that I am currently downloading.
    Wing Commander Saga:The Darkest Dawn

    Yep. Check the link. It is on (Gasp) The Pirate Bay. You have to really pick through things to find the things that are not theft to take. This is one. I will probably not even play it. But I will seed like a crazy person. myself.

    It is entirely free and fan made. Supposedly made true to the original series of games and books. But I lack the coordination to play twitchy games any more. So I just seed so others can leech.
    Here is the original details. The link itself tells the tale for most here.
  4. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Well, it's better if you don't ask. But for the record, there are cases where people can freely download something that wasn't free in the past, but they don't even know because they begin their search for it by going to the torrent site and looking for a cracked version.
    Yes, it's not exactly "pirated", but such a thing does prove something, doesn't it?

    And I know that not everyone who downloads stuff for free is a pirate, and there are often circumstances to the whole thing. But on the opposite site of the spectrum, there are also people who will pirate stuff "just because".
  5. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    I think I see what you are saying. Like I download cracked executables for any game that would otherwise try to kill my original disc and my DVD drive. Those are technically illegal since I violated my right to use the software by violating the arbitrary BS they decided in secret before I bought the game. (I.E. The EULA.)

    I guess I am a dirty, rotten thief. Shame on me. (Someone sig that fast. :))
  6. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    This isn't really true. Mostly Valve games and some other big-box games (Skyrim, for example) require Steam to be running. In most of those cases, you can run the game, wait for the cloud sync, and then kill the Steam process and the game overlay with no impact whatsoever on your game play experience.
  7. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Also, the argument of not trusting the HIB is ridiculous since it's the least intrusive system to buy games I've ever seen. They give you your link and voila. Optional Steam/Desura keys if you want them.
  8. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    Fun fact: Most courts have ruled that EULAs carry no weight if you don't read and accept them BEFORE buying or using whatever software they're for. Windows has their EULA on the back of the box.
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  9. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Because there is a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt here:

    - Steam. We do *not* use the Steam DRM injector. We do link against the steam DLL, but the EXE itself does not - to the best of my knowledge - contain additional DRM other than the fact that you have to download it from Steam to use it (that and if you try to actually access a Steam feature for Dredmor and don't have a Steam key associated with us, Valve might think you're naughty or something. I don't know.) Whether or not you want to run the Steam client on your machine is up to you, and there may be good reasons not to do this, but we do not in fact use its DRM features.
    - Desura. Desura has *no* DRM whatsoever on it. Additionally, you can now go ahead and download DRM free ZIP files for both Windows and Linux. (I should check the Windows one.) You should be able to do this from their website, without a client.
    - HIB. HIB has no DRM whatsoever, again. They quite literally take the builds I make and throw them on the website.
    - Gamefly. The EXE we sell through Gamefly has no DRM in it - again - but I'm not sure what the deal is yet with their EXE and what it may, or may not, register.

    It's also worth pointing out that if you are sufficiently paranoid about software installers that you are worried that Steam, Gamefly, whatever, may be full of spyware, you should also be equally paranoid about Dredmor. Perhaps there *is* spyware in it, and I'm not telling you. (Hint: there isn't. But I could also be lying.) (Hint: I'm not lying.) Consequently, if you are *really* worried about this, the only way to proceed is by only using software that is completely open-source, and that excludes all commercial products whatsoever. If you want to be really, really paranoid, start building your distribution from scratch.
    OmniNegro, TheJadedMieu and Kazeto like this.
  10. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Nah, in this particular case it's being cautious. I did write "there are often circumstances". And I don't count it as "piracy" if you have a physical copy and need a virtual one to run it without killing your disc (I still don't understand why they keep on using that sort of "copy protection", but whatever). Heck, I'm guilty of doing the same with a few games.

    What I was referring to were people who search for cracked version before even checking if the game is free or not. And not because they don't want to kill their CDs/DVDs or because they can't buy it for some reason (unavailability of said product in their location, lack of appropriate payment option, or even lack of money), but because they just didn't care.
    That being said, I can understand that some people might not want to trust HIB, but then again, some of those who didn't might've been converted to the cause if they had actually read anything about it, but that would require them to at least visit HIB's website instead of beginning their journey with a google search for torrents.

    But yeah, if we put it your way, then I'm a rotten thief as well. And probably most guys on this forum, too.

    And that is right, because nobody will give you your money right if you say that you tried to install it and didn't like the EULA, and forcing someone to pay only to get shafted by rules that he wouldn't agree with knowingly isn't exactly right.

    Take some sleep, Nicholas. I'm thankful for the post, but we had already found your Dredmor spyware. :D
  11. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I believe the kids say "protip" these days, Nicholas.
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  12. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Lol. I sleep a bit and look what happens here. :)

    Nicholas, you have confirmed what I already believed. There is no DRM (Besides the hidden invisible part that reports to my Cat.) in DoD. :)

    And Daynab, I apologize for implying that anyone would have any reason not to trust HIB. I love them. They were the place I first heard of DoD from. (After buying the bundle including it.) That was purely a poor choice of example. And I cannot think of any relevance to that entire part, so I will edit it and strike-through those words.

    Fax, if you must use Steam to launch the game you already bought, installed and have resident, how exactly is that not a content protection service? (Before anyone uses that example, DoD does not require Steam to run.)

    Most DRM self terminates after doing whatever it does. Your example of Steam sounds like DRM to me.
  13. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Since I don't know myself why some games require Steam open and some not, I'm gonna make a wild guess: achievements. We've already had this discussion, but since Steam is required to be on to track achievements (as far as I know) and people don't want to miss their achievements. I'm guessing developers think it's easier to ensure Steam is on and tracking correctly than dealing with the backlash.

    I could be wrong, and there might be other reasons, but keep in mind it's on the developer's side, since some games act like DoD and others not.
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  14. klaymen_sk

    klaymen_sk Member

    Steam is not only for achievements. It can also be used as a tool for multiplayer (server search, matchmaking). Dark Messiah of M&M has singleplayer which you just install from DVD and play, but multiplayer *requires* Steam (sp and mp are split). Dawn of War 2: Retribution uses Steam for matchmaking.
    Autopatching might be another feature which the devs like - if they are competent, that is. If you update the game and said patch for example adds a ton of bugs, or breaks your mods, you are screwed, because you cannot go back, even after reinstalling the game.
    Then there is the DRM itself. Sure, it doesn't help at all, but some companies insist on using some DRM (or the most stupid one available, as Ubisoft likes to use).

    And as an added bonus, several indie devs have stated that most of the sales were on Steam.
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  15. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    Good point.

    It's as simple as this: Without Steam there would be no Gaslamp Games.
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  16. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    DRM probably robs good developers of sales more than protects them from losses.

    EA insists on using DRM with everything. Can anyone think of an EA game made in the last few years that was even stable at initial install? (I know I am going way off topic again, so I will abort here and now.)

    DRM is not a deterrent for competent thieves. As I freely admitted earlier, I use cracks on any game that would otherwise require a disc in the drive to start. It usually takes a day or two for a game to be cracked, and the cracked version is usually faster running than the uncracked version since it skips the authentication junk.

    I also forbid any game from calling home. If it will not run with my firewall blocking it then it will not run ever.

    My biggest problem with Steam is the uncertainty I get with it. I know it sets itself to autostart by default. And I know that most but not all games purchased with Steam will not load at all without Steam running. And as I said earlier, Steam will not run without Internet access, and I do not run games that must call home.

    I do not think that Steam is the software equivalent of the Antichrist. Nor do I think it is always harmful. But it violates the rules I use when I use my PC.

    BTW, DMoM&M will not even start without being cracked or given Internet access. Steam or no Steam. (I do not recall.) And it was a terrible game if you expected a 3D version of the original series. (I loved the Might and Magic series.)

    (Edited for Fax post lest The Eater of Beatings smacks me for Heresy.)
  17. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Dunno what you're playing, then. 80% of my collection works just fine without Steam at all.
  18. klaymen_sk

    klaymen_sk Member

    Steam offline mode works for me, but I know that some people have problems running it. In fact, majority says that the offline mode works.

    As for the Dark Messiah - singleplayer works for mewithout Steam or cracking. And yes, I too think that it is a poor M&M game and I too like the original M&M series.
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  19. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    Hmmm. Is it possible we had different versions of DMoM&M? I had the DVD version. If you had the Steam version it is at least possible they were different executables.

    I distinctly recall cracking it since I could not get it to start at all before doing so. But my memory may just be awful. It has been several years too.
  20. klaymen_sk

    klaymen_sk Member

    I have the DVD version and I have used the CD-key on Steam, so I have it there too.
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