Still, it's different, you don't have different kinds of mysterious portals in the game, only the ones that take you to a random dimension, which, and you know you're gonna be up for a surprise since it's the only one of it's kind you've seen so far, so when you walk into it, you're aware that it might just plain up kill you. Same for Evil Chests; it says on it's name "EVIL chest", and has eyes looking through the hole, so you expect something to come out of it, and it also doesn't have a prompt before you open any normal chests, so you also don't expect one of those either. If you walk up to Dredmor carelessly, then yeah, it's youre fault and you should die.
First: Second: Read the damn description on the trap. "An uber trap is stubbornly guarding this specific bit of floor. No amount of tinkering or thievery is likely to persuade it to move or deactivate."
Why are you so mean? Anyways, like I said, that's why I think it should show a 0% success rate instead of just making you blow up.
Because I really shouldn't have to be the person who has to dig into the game files and provide evidence to the person who dies to it that there is actually a description saying "you can't tinker with it" and ticker text saying "don't be a sissy".
Oh, you did read that it said that? Sorry, it's been a week, and I assumed (on reading the code) that if there was a desire to make it "display a trap disarm message" that you hadn't read the description. Anyway, once *again* echoing Kazeto for the umpteenth time - its a roguelike. In general the game is pretty forgiving, but there's one or two things that will kill you, and will fuck you up the first time round. Necronomiconomics is one of them. Root of Tchar is another. Fisking a cube is another. Opening a monster zoo from the middle of a door is another. Using an instability potion near an island is another. Entering a wrong code into the wizardlands is another. And so on. The game actually warns you about it the first time 'round (the description), and after that, you shouldn't be falling for it.
I don't think you got my point, it's not falling for it that I'm mad. It's not being unable to disarm it that I'm mad. It's that when you click on it, LIKE ANY OTHER TRAP IN THE GAME (and don't come saying "hurr durr it's technically not a trap" you get what I mean) you expect it to trigger a trap disarm message, instead, you just walk right on it. THAT is my problem with it. What is so harmful about making it require like, >100 trap affinity skill to even get past 0%, it still would make it so "No amount of tinkering or thievery is likely to persuade it to move or deactivate.", but it would also make it so people don't walk right on it when all they mean to do is disarm the trap. And lastly: "To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable." Barry Goldwater
Then make it so you can't? I'm sure there's a way to make a trap like that, or to make a customblocker that requires certain trap affinity to unlock or to have the customblocker already in the Anvil of Krong room trigger a disarm trap message or something, it must be possible.
Like 80% of stuff like that in this game is hardcoded. Why would you expect to need a trap that doesn't act like a trap in every situation? You wouldn't, but for this rare occasion, you do. Edit: I guess its possible in theory to dump a dummy trap on top of it; the issue is that said trap could be knockbacked, making it look like the other trap got knockbacked.
Isasaur, whilst I am aware of the point you are trying to make, I would be grateful if you stopped with your replies to mining for a moment and tried to understand this very post. Yes, mining is being rather rough now. Yes, it is not something that should happen. But having been observing this thread (and replying to it earlier), I can tell you that you sort of deserved it. Now, I am not trying to say that you don't have a point or that you are being an ass. No, but you are stubbornly replying to him in a way that, to an outside observant, screams "no, you don't get it" while your attitude towards what mining wrote is pretty much the same. You were given a reason, as well as excerpts from the data files (which are not difficult to modify if you are really that aggravated by the presence of said "traps", you only need to be able to read and understand what you are reading [and I'm not talking about knowing how to program but rather about basic ability to comprehend any text]), and time and again it had been repeated that the exact change you want can't be made. And now getting at it, once again (because I already wrote it in the past, and frankly I am not happy that I have to repeat this again after a page of you and mining fighting), this is the most detailed explanation to the "why is it not a normal trap" question that you are going to be given; if that doesn't satisfy you, then make yourself a cup of tea and drink it while it's still warm and then think about the explanation for a little longer (because, while I don't mind replying if your replies are "normal", I'm going to start reporting posts to Daynab if I see mining and you fighting here once again; it is simply counter-productive if you just duke it out for no real reason and I don't really like counter-productivity without reason): On the very beginning, the same as it is now, it was possible to move with both your keyboard and your mouse. However, due to the way the movement algorithm worked, it was discovered that moving with mouse was more beneficial because using it to move (as opposed to moving with the keyboard) made the algorithm input the locations of traps which the player is not able to see Because of the above, players who moved with a mouse could, if they knew how to do it and did not just run blindly with their cursor, forgo any skill trees granting either trap sight or trap affinity, and still be able to evade every possible trap. At the same time, players who moved with keyboard instead of mouse, had to think about avoiding the traps via providing their characters with trap sense and trap affinity, and they also had to move more cautiously. Because there was no way for the movement algorithm to differentiate between traps which are visible and traps which are not (due to lack of appropriate data hooks; data hooks which are hard-coded, and "hard-coded" is not just a fancy word for "we don't want to be bothered" - changing an integral part of an already-existing algorithm by making it accept additional data is a really daunting task), the disparity of movement methods remained the same until the third expansion came out. Because the third expansion added a place (or series of places) which is acknowledged as "nasty" from the get-go, the developers used it as a chance to add "traps" which would confuse the movement algorithm and require actual cautiousness of the player. However, because (once again) the general trap behaviour and the movement algorithm are both hard-coded, to achieve that they needed to make these "traps" not into traps, but rather into spell effects. And that they had. They are supposed to be traps which players moving using keyboard to move will avoid with ease, yet players moving with mouse will stumble on occasionally if (and only "if") they aren't paying attention (which they learned not to in the past). Knowing that just doing that is going to confuse the players, they added a description which states that the "trap" can not be disarmed in any way. Most players still try and either hurt or kill their character the first time it happens. However, it is expected of them to actually pay attention to the description (which pretty much states "you can do nothing about it") and decide to avoid them completely in the future; even more so, it is possible to see these "traps" if you have 0 trap sense, which is a sure-fire evidence that they are not normal traps and will not behave like normal traps (because no trap in the game is visible with 0 trap sense). The developers' decision regarding the creation of the new "traps" was still a mild one - even though this game is rather mild in that regard, it is a rogue-like game, meaning that loss of a single character in order to learn to avoid some danger in the future. Because understanding the description of these traps requires only ability to read and basic comprehensive abilities, the failure to understand how these "traps" are traps and what is the correct approach when dealing with them is the failure of the player. And last of all, I can tell you that there literally is no way to make it work the way you want it to without making it not work the way it is supposed to. Yes, really, even I don't know how to do that, and that means something. Also, this: No, it is not possible. Before using "it must be possible" in an argument which is starting to turn into a war because of stubbornness of both sides where you are one of these sides, please at least try to learn what really is possible. Otherwise, ask others if it is possible, or try to find anything in the code which behaves in the exact same way as what you want, not "similar" but "exact same". "Must be possible" is something you can only use as an argument if you, personally, know how to do it. Even I don't use it if I'm not sure, and I have pride in my ability to write code (even if that pride is not necessarily something I should have). PS. Do know that I am not angry/mad/berserking/whatever other synonym there is. I just see there likely is no point in trying to explain it normally, so if being rougher than mining is required for you to think about what is being said to you, then so be it.
oh my dear diggula I have met my match and it is glorious. Edit: Also when Kazeto says something can't be done, it's like... It's not happening without a lot of devwork. Edit: By devs. Edit: Who are currently working on clockwork empires.
Thanks Kazeto and mining for explaining it yet again.You'd need a completely new class of object for it, and I want CE sooner than later. Though you are kind of right, giving it a non-trappy name and optics might reduce frustration. You can do that without coding knowledge in about ~3 minutes. Though I guess the devs did want it to look like a trap, because it can be hard to see those bastards. I think they intended players to die once, which is why you can't move it, can't see it easily and why it kills you.
