[Experimental 41E] Summary of my Impressions

Discussion in 'Clockwork Empires General' started by Tikigod, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. Tikigod

    Tikigod Member

    Initially posted this in the general 41E thread, but what started off as a reply to someone ended up pretty much being something all to itself so moving it over to a new thread.

    General impressions of 41E summed up:

    * Food production & farming is reasonably possible to balance in your colony. If workers get fixed so they are able to handle multiple cook orders at the same at a rate like they used to in previous builds instead of getting themselves tied up waiting on a single order, then kitchen bottleneck should address itself.

    * Resource collection rates are pretty sustainable to get all the key industry areas going within the first week and a half utilising a steady but non-rushed pace without too many issues.

    * Overseer immigration seems to trigger just when I find myself feeling I could really do with a extra paid of hands to handle more simultaneous jobs. In 41D it felt too quick, but with the change in farming encouraging smaller but more numerous farms the faster pace of overseers really meshes in well.

    * Workers arrive far too slowly now relative to overseer growth. Got a colony going well into its 3rd week and only got 1 or 2 workcrews with full workers because my overseer influx trumps the worker influx even when normal immigration starts sending 5-6 workers a pop because the fact that Upper class colonists can arrive instead of workers during immigration gives a unreliable growth.

    * Instead the choices at around 70+ colonists still seems to be to have 2 or 3 workcrews fully manned out and then have the other workcrews with varying number of workers meaning jobs they undertake can clog up the entire colony machine. Or to have all your workcrews sat at around 3 workers each.... disregarding military needs. If you factor in having a proper military force in your colony then at around 70 colonists you'll still be struggling to have more than 2 workers in your workcrews due to the Overseer:Worker ratio being off-kilter.

    * But I can't stress enough that this really doesn't seem to be a overseer growth problem. At a slow but steady rate of growth (Week 3 and 73 colonists still some workshops not built like the brewery and lab) I'm finding I have just the right number of workcrews needed to keep the cogs turning without really any workcrews idle. It's the worker influx pacing relative to workcrew count growth that is off.

    Immigration & Workcrew to Population Balance:

    30 colonists split across 7 work groups would work well to have a lot of workers in each workgroup and a early military. Once you discount the overseers/NCOs that leaves you with 23 workers split across 7 workgroups. Averaging at 3 workers per crew. This is the kind of balance level would be reflective of a very early colony but able to keep itself ticking over for the next couple of days without suddenly finding itself stumped when a worktable breaks, a bed degrades, or a hostile military unit turns up.... this is including a military unit sufficient to handle the average bandit scenarios.

    That isn't to say I'm stating 7 work groups can sustain a colony for very long at all now, as it can't. It's just an example of a Total (productive) Colonists : WorkCrew ratio. So 30:7 or 45:10 or 60:14 and so on.

    What current ratios are standing at for a non-industry rush colony though is more 30 colonists split across 12 or more workgroups. Once you discount the overseers/NCOs that leaves you with 18 workers split across 12 workgroups. Averaging at around 1 worker per crew trying to keep a colony that needs to support 30 people safe, fed and growing. And that's not really sufficient unless you don't want any military at all or alternatively get stupidly lucky with random events. Especially as in a day or two you'll be getting another overseer, and another, and another at a pretty steady pace if you actively play.

    And that's all assuming absolute best case immigration with no poets/aristocrats/bureaucrats/other useless parasitic colonists. So if you factor in the occasional upper class taking the place of a worker you would likely be looking at more 15-16 workers split across 12 workgroups.

    Going to repeat something posted over on the Steam forum regarding 41D as it's still very much applying to 41E:

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  2. advkow

    advkow Member

    I'm positive that things in future revisions are going to be redone. Like artisans will not have workers and such. I also feel that there are way too many overseers and the work crews do need to be more controllable, such as being able to set a max number for different work crews (because I don't think say a lab needs ten workers)
  3. I would absolutely -love- an option to set a max number of workers for a particular work crew. Granted, it's really not much of a problem to just go in and reassign labourers around when new ones arrive and get slotted into a work crew I don't want anyone else in.
  4. Mikel

    Mikel Waiting On Paperwork From The Ministry. Forever.

    I need to tinker then... I have not managed to adjust to the new food regime at all.

    MOOMANiBE Ah, those were the days. Staff Member

    I haven't done a lot of balance work on kitchens, but the ability for a single person to cook multiple things at a time was removed to allow room for things like skill level and module upgrades to eventually make this more efficient. That said, I haven't done a serious balance pass on the kitchen timing at the moment so it's entirely possible it's going too slowly! I'll be looking into this stuff more in future patches.

    This is an interesting assumption. But... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    In the short term, I'll be decreasing the chances of getting an aristocrat from Lower Class immigration (pending their complete removal from the event) and slowing down Middle Class immigration SLIIIIGHTLY as well. In the long term... I'll have to do some thinking, if this continues to be an issue.

    Thanks for the feedback!
  6. Rentahamster

    Rentahamster Member

    Actually, I see my largest food production in 41E with large 6 square width x max length (so 3 rows of crops per farm). As soon as I can get a work crew with at least 3 laborers, I make a huge farm or maize or wheat, and set that work crew to farming only. Works pretty well.
  7. Mikel

    Mikel Waiting On Paperwork From The Ministry. Forever.

    I've shied away from messing with filters as they seem to change on their own or not always work I as expect. I did try your method in 41D, but I had other crews co-opt the farming, as there was no way to truly tie any one work crew to farming duty.
  8. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    (Filters got fixed for Rev 42. I think.)
  9. Mikel

    Mikel Waiting On Paperwork From The Ministry. Forever.

    Every time you say '42' I perk up like a dog hearing a whistle.
  10. Rentahamster

    Rentahamster Member

    To prevent undermanned work crews from inefficiently working a large farm field, I also disable farming from any work crew that has 2 or less laborers. It works well. I don't have any spoilage at all, and large amounts of food growing. The bottleneck is cooking it all. I need 2 fully staffed kitchens with 5 steam ovens each.
  11. Tikigod

    Tikigod Member

    What kind of colony size (and importantly starting loadout) is that based off of?

    As using the proper starting loadouts it takes quite some time to get any serious number of workcrews to 3 workers unless you just stack up all your immigration into a single workcrew each wave and then ride out the rest of the time until the next one praying you don't get any random events or sudden need to have more than 1 or 2 workcrews with any workers.

    Exception to this would be the 21 starting colonist loadout, but I would very much disqualify games made from that starting loadout from being included as a factor as a whole due to it being a anomaly scenario that represents a day 1 baseline Worker:Overseer ratio that throws off the entire path of future immigration to produce something that in no way reflects situations any other loadout would deliver.

    Part of me actually wishes the devs would remove the 21 colonist loadout option until they've nailed down the colony economic systems for that very reason, as it can and almost certainly will significantly taint feedback on core changes.

    MOOMANiBE Ah, those were the days. Staff Member

    I've been very, very tempted.
  13. Tikigod

    Tikigod Member

    By 'small farms' I mean around 5x5 plots. Which compared to the new farm sizes possible would be really small. But compared to the old limits would be rather large. lol
  14. Rentahamster

    Rentahamster Member

    I tried it out the first time with the 21 colonists. Then I did it with the advanced starter, then the stalwart supply, and the aristocrat one. You get enough people to form at least a 4-laborer work crew by day 5. The aristocrat starter is even faster since you can use your initial batch of favor to get increased immigration the first time it appears.

    Until day 5, I gathered berries and fungus. You only need to get 3 days worth, since you start with enough food.

    For protection, you don't need the laborers to be assigned to the militia 24/7. Just have the lone militia NCO to start. Enable his job filters so that he does stuff too. If bandits come, take off all laborers from their overseers, and assign them to the militia. No sweat. If you find the bandit camp, forage the tents for easy guns. Future bandits shouldn't be a problem.
    Mikel likes this.
  15. Mikel

    Mikel Waiting On Paperwork From The Ministry. Forever.

    I will have to try this tonight.
  16. In the past couple of games I've played, it's beginning to seem like the amount of effort needed to be put into sustaining food may be negatively impacting colony defense in an unexpected way: I'm having to spend so much more time setting up a food infrastructure, that it's taking much longer to get around to being able to grow opium for the clinic or wheat to make alcohol, thus the wounds and negative memories are sticking around longer, making any wounded NCO, footsoldier or militia less effective at defense. I would say this can be compounded by getting unlucky with the random encounters and having a squad of hostile foreigners march through the colony within the first 3 or 4 days, but that seems to be an issue in and of itself, really. Or is there something I'm missing with the way morale is working?