Dredmor Patch 1.0.10 RC9 Feedback Thread - I Believe in The Lever Fix

Discussion in 'Dungeons of Dredmor General' started by Nicholas, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    That's the one. Happily we received control to stop this from happening at some point. The fix will be in the final patch.
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  2. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    ...I remember the days thaumites were exponential AND worked on all bodies into a pile. You would end up with thousands of them, multiplying, until your PC faceplanted. Good times.

    I was told the proc-going-away-bug was legacy, but honestly I've never seen it before this RC6...
    SkyMuffin likes this.
  3. Sade

    Sade Member

    If I had to make a list of the worst skills in DoD, Big Game Hunter would definitely be placed on the top. Its not necessarily the weakest one, though - any skill with summoning abilities is helpful at least on higher DLs.

    1) Hunter's Lure is, imho, the most pointless activated ability in the game. I can't come up with any reasons why I'd deliberately want to aggravate enemies, and the included debuff is of marginal value at best.

    2) Grisly Trophy experience bonuses are meaningless. Any character build will likely reach CL >25 by the endgame, and at that point the needed experience to reach the next level is over 40000. Now, with maxed BGH, you gain an average of mere 12 extra xp for each animal killed. You'd literally need to kill thousands of animals only to get one extra character level - whose skill point is effectively spent on the otherwise useless 4th level of Big Game Hunter. The other skills that give bonus experience (Archaeology and Killer Vegan) don't have this problem; the former one grants experience enough to raise your CL by 5-7 levels, while the latter is powerful enough in general that its xp improvement is just an additional benefit.

    3) As pointed out by Glazed, 3 HP food is a highly inefficient way of healing. All the required meat grinding (or alternatively, wasting ~5) inventory spots is much more of a hassle than it's worth. Every character has almost always access to near-infinite lutefisk reserves anyway. and they are enough to maintain a pseudo-1 HP/turn healing rate out of combat.

    4) The skill is also weak stat-wise. :sneakiness: is pointless in most situations (as is :edr: to a lesser degree), and :dmg_piercing: is resisted by a variety of enemies while not being affected by :melee_power:. :sight: bonuses are always nice, but you might as well pick Perception instead.

    All in all, Release The Hounds is pretty much the only reason why I'd pick BGH over any other skills. Or I would, if I didn't despise summoning abilities in general for their tendency to protract and bore combat sequences.

    Just my $1/50.
  4. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    THANK YOU! Sorry for the all caps, but thank you so much for doing that!
    Now blobs of Corruption can be murdered by me without needing 50+ magic resist. :)
    Again, thank you.

    Also, as for Big Game Hunter, I've been watching a Let's play of Dungeons of Dredmor where Big Game Hunter is used, and it rarely procs for him, when he's hitting in melee. And I mean the monsters that do drop meat, not Stone golems. :)
    And he's using 1.09 Rev B.
    So, if there is something overpowered in that skill, it doesn't affect him.
    Also, he's now overpowered with the Diggle God of Death buff.

    Oh, when exactly do you think you'll make more things adjustable by mods? Like the chances for Krong Anvils to curse you? Just curious. Or their spawn rate.
  5. Karock

    Karock Member

    You should be able to mess with their spawn rate now yourself. I would LOVE if they would add in options to edit the corruption chance of krong anvils. They are basically the only reason I have trouble playing permadeath.

    Any news on if these fixes made it in? :p I'm probably pretty annoying by now, but if I could test it on OS X I would!!!

    Also I just wanted to say I <3 you Daynab.
  6. badboy80

    badboy80 Member

    Maybe to lure them into a trap that you've placed?
  7. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Patch RC7 up. Updating the top of the thread.
  8. the link is bugged again, it's a link to RC6.
  9. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member

    Dangit! Derek, can we put a couple more quarters in the Internet Machine again?
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  10. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Either I'm retarded, or buffs inside buff tags are still baroken.

    <spell name="Eldritch Shield" type="self" icon="skills/eldritchshield32.png" wand="0">
    <buff usetimer="0" removable="1" icon="skills/eldritchshield64.png" smallicon="skills/eldritchshield32.png">
    <resistbuff acidic="1" aethereal="1" asphyxiative="1" blasting="1" conflagratory="1" crushing="1" existential="1"
    hyperborean="1" necromantic="1" piercing="1" putrefying="1" righteous="1" slashing="1" toxic="1" transmutative="1" voltaic="1"/>
    <secondarybuff id="10" amount="1"/>
    <playerHitEffectBuff percentage="100" name="Eldritch Shield Effect"/>
    <description text="You trade mana for not getting hurt. It's usually a good deal, but beware of angry mobs."/>
    <spell name="Eldritch Shield Effect" type="self" icon="skills/eldritchshield32.png" wand="0">
    <effect type="spellpoints" amount="-1"/>
    <anim sprite="sprites/sfx/mystic_hit/mystic_hit" frames="5" framerate="60" centereffect="0" sfx="blast" />
    isn't triggering Eldtrich Shield Effect at all. No animation, no -1 mana. Am I retarded?
  11. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Did I ever mention how awesome it is that someone with the name David works for you? :)
    Maybe I'm a bit biased because that's my name, but still, always nice to see that someone who shares my name works on games I like.
    Also, according to Multiple Universe theory, there's a universe where I helped make Dungeons of Dredmor. :)
  12. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Member

    If that happened I don't think it would be Dungeons of Dredmor anymore, because Dredmor would just get eaten. Instead, it would be Dungeons of Thaumites (featuring the dead adventurer).
  13. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member


    Lots and lots of traps.

    On the same square. It's funny, trust me.
  14. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member


    Yes. :D Look at Radiant Aura for the correct syntax; the most likely culprit is that "Eldritch Shield Effect" is defined *after* the spell calling it; it must be defined *before*.[/code][/quote][/code][/quote]
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  15. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    I agree with that. If anything, it's that Big Game Hunter has a useful first skill, useful third skill, situational second skill, and "something" for the last two. There is no solid capstone skill (with the penultimate one not being a very desirable one, too), and the Hunter's Lure isn't useful most of the time (it can be useful, but the debuff is pretty silly). So, what I propose is for the skill tree is this:
    • Make Trophy Collector the first skill. Nerfing it so that it would be a first-tier ability might not even be necessary, as with 8 experience per killed animal, it's difficult to get more than just a few thousands of experience through the game, and that is much less than one level in the end-game.
    • Make Butcher into the second skill in the tree, while balancing it like you would any second-tier ability instead of a first-tier one (ground meat isn't really broken in terms of balance, but the sheer amount of it means we should have to spend one point to get it, just like what happens with Lucky Pick).
    • Make Hunter's Lure third, and change it into a trap-laying skill, with said trap aggravating monsters after a few turns and putting a slightly more noticeable debuff on anything that comes close. Because aggravating a monster to put a debuff like the one we get now is pretty pointless, but remotely aggravating a small group of monsters (with us being able to withdraw a little further) to put something a little more noticeable on them (10~15 points' worth debuff instead of the current 5-point one) might have its uses, depending on our builds.
    • Make The Most Dangerous Game the fourth skill. But throw Grisly Trophy out of it, since you would either have to include a greater version of it (getting 8 experience per kill from just one group of monsters, from a fourth-tier skill, simply mocks the player) or make it more universal (which counts as "greater version" too). Instead, add a proccing skill that triggers semi-commonly (15~20%) and deals piercing damage scaling with sneakiness. It would be a good match for the butcher proc in the ability (with you having the chance of dealing 2 types of damage), and the slight scaling would help against targets with innate piercing resistance.
    • Make Release the Hounds fifth, while buffing it appropriately. It's a decent ability that can actually be useful for the purposes of "crowd control" (the word "control" is a little it too far-fetched because we have no control over the summoned diggles, but the ability to summon multiple monsters at once can be life-saving).
    • It would also be better if we got slight stat gains every (or almost every) level, instead of just 2 levels having any and the rest having none. Right now it adds 2 critical, 15 EDR, 2 sight, 2 piercing damage, and 5 sneakiness, so there's enough points to gain for every skill tier to get some.
  16. Nicholas

    Nicholas Technology Director Staff Member


  17. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    ^^ I'll do this in the revised EESR if the devs don't. :)

    For anyone who was curious, I am officially retarded. If there was any doubt, the devs say so. :p

    Next question: is randomized damage/resistances working yet? :)
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  18. surnia1125

    surnia1125 Member

    Or to help in cornering Octos and the like, the ones that avoid you whilst spamming ranged attacks. Although I've found License to Cast to be more useful in most of those situations, imho.
  19. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    Good points all around. Revised.

    Edit: post-1.0.10, I'm afraid. Had to cut off after these last builds are being done.
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  20. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    I really don't care what all is done with the rest of the tree so long as that meat is kept under control. It can really warp the battle of attrition.

    EXCEPT: I am in favor of anything and everything that scales to Sneakiness. Savvy needs some love.
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