Death By A Thousand Taunts

Discussion in 'Mod Releases' started by Catbread, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. OmniaNigrum

    OmniaNigrum Member

    But since it is a mod, they are unlikely to ever be reached except in marathon gaming sessions. I am reasonably certain that the basic text is used first and mods second.
  2. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    Higher up on the list, meaning, the top of the list.

    I've seen several of my own taunts, so that should do.

    I might check this list theory myself, just in case.
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  3. King Yoshi

    King Yoshi Member

    Hello, Catbread. You may know me as The Dwarven Blur on Steam. Great mod! I'm enjoying it quite handily.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  4. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    Your comment tags are making my XML editor cry.

    I think it's because the dashes may or may not be required, so you have <! > when it should be <!-- -->

    Oh, also, I think "urusai" should be "urusenai". Probably.

    Also also, a syntax correction:

    <insult text="i just fixed that door! nobody say 'door' to me" />

    ALSO also also, a contribution that you don't have yet for some reason.

    "schala lives!"
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  5. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    "Urusai" is a rude Japanese exclamation intended to make someone shut up (which is how it's usually translated). Not sure what the definition of "urusenai" is, unless it's the same thing in another dialect?
    OmniNegro likes this.
  6. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Actually, "urusai" ("煩い") means "loud", though it can and commonly does get used as something akin to "shut up".
    And the word banjo2E wanted to suggest was "yurusenai" ("許せない"), which is a negative form of "yurushi" ("許し") and means "{I} won't forgive {you/that}".

    Also, dashes are required for comments. So it's always "<!--" and "-->".
    OmniNegro likes this.
  7. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    This is how words change their meanings. [/linguist]
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  8. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    Ah. I hope that was the source of the limited comments issue.
    Thanks for the heads up! I'll fix it right away.

    As far as "urusai" is concerned, that was a request that was a direct reference. It was taunt-like enough for me to keep it.

    I will fix the grammar mistakes as well, and add banjo2E's request (not it already, because I don't know what it is).

    Edit: Again, I don't know a thing about XML, or code, or computers. So these suggestions are very helpful.
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  9. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    "Schala lives!" is this wildly popular fan-theory from Chrono Trigger (a game which you have quotes from, including "but the future refused to change...") based off of the fact that A) Janus' sister, Schala, was never actually shown dying, she just sort of vanished; and B) due to a translation error, the old guy at the end of time says something that seems to imply that there's a sidequest hidden somewhere in the game that lets you rescue here, when what he was really saying was "talk to your party members for sidequests".

    This theory was so pervasive that a sequel (Chrono Cross) and a DS remake bonus dungeon were born just to try and explain it. Hell, redirects to Urban Legend of Zelda.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  10. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    Ah. Interesting stuff.
    That explains why I hadn't heard it. I am actually a gigantic poser: The first time I played Chrono Trigger was its DS re-release, so I wasn't a part of any fan discussions or similar things.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  11. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    I have maybe found a solution to the limited taunts issue!

    After some testing, I found that I would randomly see any of the first 850 or so taunts.
    So, I cut the mod into three 850 taunt-sized packs! Turning them all on at once should let me see any of them.

    I'll do some more testing to see whether this works. Meanwhile, I've uploaded all three tauntpaks here, and I'll be rotating them on the Steam Workshop every week or so at around this time.
    OmniNegro likes this.
  12. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Interesting. Let us know if it works.
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  13. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    Can do!
    I played for 20 or so minutes on Dwarven Permadeath, floors 5 and 6, before I got tired and had to sleep (and I am staying up only to report these findings).

    With the three tauntpaks in my mods folder and turned on in the menu, I recorded every taunt that appeared in-game. Here's what I got:

    The letter corresponds to the tauntpak the taunt is found in, and the number is the exact line in the text file.

    Max. line heard in old version: 863

    New game with the three-mod setup:

    Base game "get thee away"
    Base game "my therapist says..."
    Base game "..."
    Whatever result I was expecting, it wasn't that. From the look of things, A and C are working fine, while B is not.
    There was also a surprisingly high frequency of base game taunts, given that there are about 90 by default and about 1700 in A and C put together.

    -What's wrong with B? Is this the same problem as before, where only certain taunts would appear, or is there something messed up with B's code? I'll look it over.
    -More testing required to check tauntpak B and the frequency of base game taunts to see whether they're actual phenomena or just strange bouts of luck.

    I'll play for a longer stretch of time later and record more data, which will hopefully shed some light on things.

    i am scintist
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  14. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    It sounds to me like what's happening is, the game does taunts thusly:

    1) Is a taunt going to happen? If not, stop here. If yes, continue.
    2)Go to the first entry in the master list of taunts.
    3)Roll 1d100. If 100, use that taunt. If not, proceed to the next taunt, then repeat. If that taunt was the last on the list, either return to the first entry or don't display a taunt.

    This is fine most of the time, but once you add massive tauntpacks you end up with a scenario in which the probablility of a late entry showing up is really really low. Maybe the game should count the number of entries in the master list, then do some RNG shenanigans based off that number?
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  15. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    Huh?? That doesn't sound right.

    When I tested the taunts, the ones from pak C showed up in this order:

    Completely out of numerical order.
    And that's excluding taunts from pak A and the base set, which showed up at random intervals as well!
    OmniNegro likes this.
  16. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    Well, I used d100 as an example, it's probably a larger die than that, but the basic idea is that each entry in the list has a very small chance to be used. But, it's sequence-based, not truly random, so the farther you go down the list, the more likely it is that (due to basic probability) the low but fixed chance for a taunt to be used will have already cropped up. Get down far enough, and it's a virtual certainty that one of the preceding taunts succeeded its roll.

    Basically, if you roll a 100-sided die with intention to roll any one number, it's going to take a different, largely random number of rolls to hit that number each time; but chances are that you'll have rolled that one number long before you roll the die 500 times.

    When I say "the list" I mean after all mods have been added; pack B appears to be, among the mod-added packs,the last on the list.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.
  17. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    I figured that there was a problem with B, so I took a look and thought that there might be a problem at the top of the list.
    So I removed these two taunts that were near the top:

    <insult text="15 minutes could save you 15% or more" />
    <insult text="score = &e0" />

    As soon as I did that, taunts from B started appearing in the rotation.
    One of those taunts was blocking everything below it. Probably the second one.

    Several of you are code-people, right? Which of those characters would cause this disruption?
    (It's the second one, isn't it.)

    If this was actually the problem, my mod should now cover all 2500+ taunts! I'm testing it now.
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  18. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    It was "%", pretty obviously. Since the first taunt didn't appear either.

    Generally speaking, you want to avoid characters like "%", "#", "@", "&" and "*" in names/descriptions of every language that is coded, unless you know it won't break anything.
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  19. Catbread

    Catbread Member

    With the help of my assistant, Diggle Commando Trapped Behind a Lever, I changed the first taunt on the list to check and see what characters would cause it to be locked down.

    With the first taunt set to "(yo what's !@%# up?)", the diggle exclaimed that this reminded him of a puzzle. This is not a thing he would say in the base game. In other words, none of the above characters affect the taunts at all, apparently!

    So what was the offender?
    Well, setting the first taunt to "yó what's up?" caused the diggle to become very, very fond of the base game taunts. "Viva la revolución", indeed.

    I think I might have finally iced this problem. More testing to follow to ensure I've got it all worked out.

    Edit: Yep, looks like the problem's solved! I'm seeing taunts from the whole range of options.
    I've updated the OP with the non-buggy file. Victory!
    I'll keep an eye out for more issues, though, just in case. Specifically, I want to be sure the user-submitted taunts work.
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  20. banjo2E

    banjo2E Member

    Oh wow, I was totally wrong, wasn't I? My bad.

    Hope it's really fixed this time.
    OmniaNigrum likes this.