Crafting is probably UP in DG.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Equineforecaster, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. Coming to that conclusion. It's perfectly fine for low levels, but it starts to fall apart now in the lower levels.

    The reason is by the time you get to the lower floors, what you get from crafting just isn't very good in comparison to the artifacts you're possibly swimming in.

    Smithing is definitely UP, Alchemy and Tinkering might not be.

    Solution is simple: more lvl 5 crafts, especially for non-main slots. These recipes can and should be hidden though.
  2. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, I think that's the plan. They didn't have time to add new recipes in all the madness before.
  3. Fives

    Fives Member

    I've found that the bigger problem is being so reliant on finding the right recipes. Before the change to crafting, I once managed to finish 2 clockwerk chain axes + 2 overclockwerk power limbs by floor 3. Now, on a character using a similar build, I literally can't make any of these items for most of the game because I can't find the damn recipes. I have stockpiles of steel and the other components, can't find anything to do with them. By the time I find any of the recipes I've gotten better items from the evil chests already.
  4. IanExMachina

    IanExMachina Member

    Perhaps better not to save for certain recipes then and make what you can to help you along the way?
  5. Gerk

    Gerk Member

    I've found Tinkering earns its keep, if not just for the 9 Trap Affinity it grants (also gives you a damn-near endless supply of crossbolts if you're speccing in that direction...)
  6. Repulsion

    Repulsion Member

    I honestly believe that at the end of the smithing, tinkering, alchemy, or maybe archaeology or somesuch skill trees, there should be a skill that lets you find a random hidden recipe. Perhaps it would take a few ingredients to do a special ritual, or just a REALLY long recharge time, but I do believe it is kind of needed.

    Finding recipes is simply unreliable and annoying. I suppose it fits with the roguelike aspect of the game, but it screws over many builds and is generally, well... for me, personally, stupid.
    Klokinator likes this.
  7. Personally, I think each of the crafting skills should have all the level 5 skills be hidden, the level 1-4's public, and there needs to be more level 5 craftings, especially for smithing. There needs to be crafting for neck/arm/leg armor at a minimum.

    Alchemy has that Metal Orby Staff thing as a huge bottleneck, which is unfair.

    Tinkering is fine I think.

    Wand Lore should have all the wands have recipes, and spread out between levels, as an exception.
  8. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    I agree, the changes to Crafting were awkward at best.
    That statement seems oddly self-referencing. :)

    I can understand making the nerf to the way Crafting items is, but make it easier to find the recipes at least. By the 11th floor, almost every bookshelf was "You can't find anything useful."
  9. Lorrelian

    Lorrelian Member

    I think it might be more useful to give the bookshelves a chance of giving you a recipe you haven't gotten yet and a chance of being crap. It seems to me that right now the game just picks a recipe at random to be on the shelf and then tells you the "can't find anything useful" message if you already have it.

    If I'm wrong about this, disregard this suggestion.
  10. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Depends on what you mean by crap though? :) "The bookcase suddenly summons Cyberdemons...wait, we can't say that, we'll get sued."
    Honestly, I think that would be funny though.
  11. Mashirafen

    Mashirafen Member

    'This bookcase is filled with Twilight novels.'
    Wi§p, TheJadedMieu, Daynab and 2 others like this.
  12. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Hahaha! Yeah, that would be even worse than my example. All those crazy teenage girls will beat up Gaslamp Games employees. :)
  13. Mashirafen

    Mashirafen Member

    'This bookcase is filled with strange, poorly written romance novels about vampires. Strangely, the titles appear to have been scratched off the covers in the hasty manner of someone trying to escape a lawsuit.'
    Klokinator, jzworkman, Ryvian and 6 others like this.
  14. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    Sadly, I cannot give you money, but I will give you likes. :)
  15. Blind Piper

    Blind Piper Member

    Alternatively, I'd enjoy obtaining bookcase crafting recipes if it was more likely to drop recipes of my craft of choice. If there was a modifier based on the number of ranks you had, it would give the player a little more control. So, if I had one smithing, there would be little increase in the chance to find smithing recipes, but after I've maxed it out for five ranks, my chance for smithing recipes gains a notable increase.
    Wi§p likes this.
  16. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    I agree with Blind Piper there.
    Seeing as most (if not all) recipes are of high enough level to actually require us to have had taken a skill tree corresponding to the given crafting skill, it would be good if the chance to get crafting recipes related to our craft of choice had a higher chance of showing up.
    But then again, that would probably require making distinction between recipe types (probably, as there is a chance that, for some reason, they won't need to do it), so I don't know if it's a viable thing to do.
  17. JunkRamen

    JunkRamen Member

    A small thing, but significant nonetheless, for Smithing is that unlike the other two crafting skills, it becomes pretty much worthless after your equipment falls behind. Tinkering will always remain relevant thanks to bolt and bomb crafting and Alchemy for healing and the extremely potent flasks.

    Smithing, on the other hand, gets some pretty weak throwing weapons that, per ingot, don't even craft at the same rate as bolts do. I know it's not meant to turn you into a shuriken throwing ninja but there needs to be some additional reward for late game ingots once you're done crafting some of the gear.
    Djokson likes this.
  18. DavidB1111

    DavidB1111 Member

    True, I love Smithing, but it does seem to become useless if you already get good gear. Even with Two Broader axe recipes, that's only 7 steel or something. You can get lucky and get that by floor 4 like I did. :) Now, unless I get more steel, I don't know of any recipe but Ebossed Serpentine Platemail I'd make with my Axe user.
  19. Kazeto

    Kazeto Member

    Well, Clockwork Knights mod does fix that a little, as there are a few more high-level smithing recipes with it, but even with said mod it still isn't as useful as tinkering.
    Then again, there isn't any real way to make smithing better, other than simply adding more useful items to forge.
  20. Sniktch

    Sniktch Member

    The late-game weakness of Smithing is a function of two things: Bad "durable" crafting(by which I mean things you will craft multiple times - throwables and the like) and the weakest statbuffs of all the crafting trees. Tinkering gives EIGHT Trap Skill(you need 9 to disarm any trap in the game safely, 10 to recover any trap in the game) and a bunch of trapsight PLUS 5 Nimbleness and the ability to make BoMD/Acid Flask/Poison Flask bolts, Alchemy gives 5 Sagacity and gem transmutation, plus has hands-down the absolute best durables in the game - Brimstone flasks are devastating, Healing and Purity potions are lifesavers, etc. Smithing gets 1 trapskill and 5 Burl, and a bunch of single-target throwing weapons that cap-out at 10 damage(Throwing Axe and Nzappa Zapp, both of which take 2 ingots to make and oddly enough, the Throwing Axe is the BETTER of the two because Piercing damage is not buffed by critical hits).

    However, I actually would not suggest buffing Smithing's craftables - it's an eternal arms race, in a way. There will always be more "stuff", so adding more to Smithing that way is just a band-aid. Plus, as has been noted many a time, Evil Chest gear will blow away anything you can find or make anywhere else, period. No, what Smithing needs to measure up is something else....Tinkering and Alchemy are about making or detecting things that will carry you through. Smithing is about making stuff to tide you over...then using what you learned to carry you through. So!

    Proposed Smithing change, take 1.

    Every level of Smithing gives +10 Magic Resist. No, that is not a typo. Smithing is a warrior skill. Warriors have to deal with stuff in melee. That means taking fire from caster mobs and tanking corruption mobs face-to-face when there's no other option. Magic Resist helps with both things. Further, it also helps deal with mobbing critters - because you can use AoE and cloud throwables and bolts more freely in close, since you resist the effects more often. And there are VERY few options to get Magic Resist otherwise - my current warrior has 87, but 40! of that comes from Essence's Bushido and QiGong mod-based skilltrees. Had I not taken that, PLUS 10 from berzerker, I'd have lost a TON of gear to corruption already. Magic Resist is crucial for warriors, and for the moment the only "reliable" sources of it for warriors are mod skilltrees, dual-shield Unarmed using twin Ensigiled Shields, or Demonology, and the latter two have ...issues(Dual-shield melee is VERY luck-based and won't save your gear before about DL 8ish, plus on sub-10 Dls, you will be taking EONS to whittle things down since you won't have the raw damage from Evil Chest weapons. Demonology debuffs you for 100 turns and corruption. at. a. time. With a 100 turn cooldown between uses. Also permanently nukes your Radiant resist badly, and LOTS of enemies chuck radiant later. Mages have it easy here as always - Dark Orbs, Cybertronic Orbs, and Orbs of Nothing give big pops to Mag Resist, as do several staves, a couple of robes, quite a few hats, the yellow Crown, and several spells).

    Smithing level 2 already gives 1 Trap Skill. Make Smithing level 4 give another. This helps them in the XP/survivability race without taking away Tinkering's cake. Also make level 5 give 2 Trap Sight.

    Smiths deal with fire, caustics, and smoke a lot. So give some resists - say 1 gives 1 Conflagratory, 3 gives 1 Acid, 5 gives 2 Asphyxiative, 1 acid, 1 conflagratory.

    And finally, Smithing builds muscle. A LOT of muscle. Up the Burl bonus to 3. As it sits, you get a total including "warrior level bonus" of 15 Burl from taking Smithing - that's 5 Melee Power and 7 HP. Up the total to 25 - that's +3 Melee Power and +5 more HP, not a lot in the long run, but Smithing is best taken to cap early, because its outputs don't keep up with late-game critters. And 12 HP and 8 more damage a swing is a LOT on floors 1-3.

    mining, Wi§p and tcjsavannah like this.