College: Where to Go!?

Title says it all. I have absolutely no idea where I want to go to college or what would be a good college for what I'm interested in.

I'm hoping perhaps some of you may be able to help:

Location: Preferably United States (I'm not extremely picky on the region, However note that I live on/near the west coast) Canada may also be a viable option but not preferred as costs would probably skyrocket.

My Interests:
Programing:
Artificial Intelligence interests me slightly, I wouldn't NOT go to a school because it didn't have it. (To many self contradicting negatives there...I'm saying I would go to a school without AI)
Gaming design programing what can I say, I'm a gamer at heart, I'm intrigued by what games can do. I know the industry can be harsh but that is my decision for a career path.
Perhaps some general courses: However I have already taken a college level computer science class so I am not interested in a repeat of that.(college level as in AP Computer science in High-school)

Literature:
Writing rather than reading. Creative fictional writing at that...Non-fiction bores me and I detest most non fantasy novels. However my comprehension while reading is above average.

Art:
I would love to be able to draw but reality is-I can't. Pictures hate me, both 3d and 2d.

Math:
I am capable with nearly all math that I set my mind to.

Some schools I've glanced at are:

Full sail University:
I know very little of the school. It claims to be great at the subjects I'm interested in however I haven't found much more info on it to back it up outside of it's own claims.
The school also doesn't seem to promote much of a social life, although it is located in Florida where there would be plenty of activities to do(I think?)

Vancouver Film School:
It is apparently a really great school.
Offers a variety of interesting courses
However, not only is out of state, but also country. I do not yet know what my budget for a college is.(I am not rich, nor am I poor yet the majority of my friends may claim me to be rich. I know little of my families income/financial needs.)

Besides those two schools- I feel a bit lost and even within the two I do not know as much as I would like.

 

Um. This may sound strange but, as someone with a writing degree (in Journalism to be specific) and a strong interest in fiction (see my sig), I would strongly recommend not attending school just for writing. Get a marketable skill, take a few writing/lit courses and look into attending writers conferences in your free time. Use the conferences to network, both with editors and other writers. Graduate with a marketable skill, like programming, and support yourself on it while writing in your free time.

If I could have my college career to do over again, the above is probably how I would do it. My younger sister also wants to be a writer, and this is what I've suggested she do (she's looking into an animation degree right now). There simply aren't enough easy entry positions for an English/professional communications around right now. If you want to do it, you're going to have to dedicated practically every waking hour to working out how you're going to get published and setting up your outreach. I'm seriously way behind the ball on this. If you want to be a game designer with a writing background you can get most of what you'll need out of books from your local library and some writer's conferences. They're really great opportunities.

So yeah. Programming as a major is what I'd recommend. Going fora degree in one of the other three areas is like asking for a teaching job... As for what schools... well, that's not something I've actively looked into, so I'm afraid I can't make any recommendations...

 

I agree with Daynab on that - if you want to get into the video game industry, don't try getting a "game design" diploma because it won't give you anything. That is because they (most of the time) don't want people taught how to perform routine programming tasks of various types, but rather someone who has the idea of how to do various stuff in a way that works, and thus what will interest them is your portfolio. Every little bit of programming that was in some way unique, every problem you solved by doing something innovative, that is what they are going to take a look at.
And that is because they don't need people who can code the same things as others and get stumped on the same problems - they'd get interns if they wanted that. What they do want is to get a team that will be able to to get through every problem, and that means every one of them has to know how to solve some non-standard problems. Heck, you can ask Nicholas and his happy team about that, I'm pretty sure they'll say something similar to that.

Other than the programming (because as much as I can try to say something, it's clear enough that you can create code), it all depends on whether you feel capable. If you want to get into a writing school, you have to know if you can write a coherent story that is at least a few dozen pages long, because many people aren't capable of sitting through the task (but then again, if you can write, then it's better to get a different diploma so that you'll get more varied skills). And if you want to get into a math school, well, you shouldn't have any problems if "all math" includes calculus.

 

My most important recommendation is go to community college first and get a transfer degree. They're a bit more subject to market forces and I found mine to be way more slicker and better managed than my university. It also means that even if you don't get a 4-year degree in the end you do get a 2-year degree. 4-year universities, public ones anyway, usually kind of ride on undergraduate tuition to do more glamorous things.

On that note above there, do undergraduate research. It's worth the experience.

Most any place with a computer science or business department these days will have some AI and data mining courses (the two are somewhat difficult to distinguish).

If you are really devoted to games and willing to spend money at a private university, head to DigiPen down in Redmond. Do well there and you're almost guaranteed a job at Nintendo.

I'd be skeptical of Full Sail. I recommend you watch this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/view/

 

I can assure you I wouldn't go to a college solely for Lit however if offered and/or required from a school it would be of interest to me.

being capable at math does not necessarily mean I love it enough to major in it. I understand the importance of physics and trig and how they would be skills needed in the game industry. But I would not be one to write a physics engine.

I honestly do not see a grand reason to take a game design course myself. However, I want more experience with graphics/collisions input etc. I know I could go down the self trained route, dedication and innovation with lot's of trial and error; but one needs to also see the benefits of being in that college environment being able to work with a team and have a professor to help guide you in your struggles hopefully leading to some basic skills to fall back on, that then can be morphed into the unique, and innovative code game developers look for.

I also want options available open for other application based programming. Probably not programing robots to do things- while that seems a bit cool it does not appeal to me.(To some extent- I did mention artificial intelligence also appeals to me which may be directly linked to robots however it might not be so simple to find a job for such a thing--does not seem as common/profitable to me).

Simply put--I can't go up to a company and say I'm eager to work and code for you! Oh yeah...you probably need to teach me this stuff first. Internships are an option, however is that truly the (I use this lightly here) "best" way to begin a career in programing? I'd hate to assume some of you are all implying skip college all together(my parents would probably kill me anyways haha) but it honestly seems like the consensus is colleges don't help in that career path all that much.

And I am slightly skeptical of Full Sail however Daynab did say he had a friend going there and I may take up the offer to poke a few questions at said friend

 

The best way is to get involved and work on paid projects, as they are the most varied experience a student can get when it comes to actually working in the IT sector. I started doing projects when I was on 2nd semester (which was at least partially because I needed money, but still), and after some time my portfolio started looking rather well, and every time I was looking for some additional work I sent examples of the code I wrote (the bits that I could write, stuff that was done for other people for money was obviously off). I still haven't gotten the diploma I plan on stopping after getting, but I already got some offers from companies, without reaching to them first. Because somehow the code I was sending and the size of my portfolio reached them and they decided to try with me when they needed someone instead of waiting for a random intern.

 

While this sounds like a good idea in theory, in practice community colleges have an atrocious one-in-four completion rate. Just make sure you're one of the ones instead of one of the fours.

 

Yeah. The avoid debt thing is huge, I was fortunate enough to pull it off, partly by scholarships and grades, partly by working 20 hours a week during school and 40 hours a week over summers and mostly by having parents who thought ahead. But I know some people who weren't so fortunate who are still paying for school six to ten years after, with no noteworthy job from their degree.

The community college stat is off-putting. But my sister is doing some college work in high school at a local community college. From her testimony, the average student Does Not Care. They're just punching time to get a piece of paper, hoping it will get them a job. If you're not like them, if you're really motivated and invested in what you do, you should do fine.

 

If you are having trouble deciding on a major, you may want to try a liberal arts school. Usually they have a lot of required classes in multiple fields, so you can take those while exploring different majors at the same time. The downside is that you may have to take classes in subjects you absolutely hate.

What size school are you looking for? Do you want a big university or a small college? Do you want a college town or a city?

 

I have never attended college, nor even high school. But a few things I have noticed seriously pay off.

First of all, before agreeing to attend *ANY* class, step inside and watch a class. Most universities allow this without any trouble. Some few require you to bother to ask permission to do this. But it is literally that hard to be permitted. What you will gain is an understanding of if the class works in a way you can tolerate. And you may even determine if the class if a BS note on your educational record that should be avoided.

Second, *ALWAYS* speak to the Professor before agreeing to take his/her class. They are usually very intelligent people that actually care. If they seem uninterested, or dumb as a bag of rocks, you are better off avoiding that class entirely.

Third, as every other person has told you already, being able to perform is the absolute singular most important thing on your resume. Period. You can have a dozen diplomas, but that means exactly nothing if you cannot do some actual work without a staff to see to your every need.

When interviewing for a job, remember that an interview is not one sided. *YOU* are interviewing as much as being interviewed. Ask questions. Be a total ass if you must. Worthwhile employers will recognize that you are capable of being independent if you enter with confidence and ask the right questions.

Back to college before I get too far off subject... Remember that the "Requirements" for a particular diploma are *NOT* set in stone. You can negotiate and usually get one class you deem worthless replaced by another or even none at all if you can demonstrate you do not need that junk.

Fully half of the college coarses are either redundant, or altogether worthless. Choose wisely. Talk to students that have attended the classes you want to take. Find where you will live while attending a college before you commit to attending.

Apply for *EVERY* scholarship, even if you damned well know you do not qualify. They often will give up on their cherry picking of recipients and decide upon someone else that should never have applied. I shit you not.

More to come...

 

That may be true in some schools, for some majors. Technical, math, and science courses though are always relevant, though, at least until you know what you are going to be doing for the rest of your life. Plus, going to school simply to learn the bare minimum of what you need to know, misses the major point of college, and that is to figure out exactly what it is that you DO want to do with the rest of your life (you may think you know what it is now, but most students either really don't, or have insufficient data to make an actual decision). Plus, a well-rounded education is much more important than a focused one, imho. From what I've seen, specialists sometimes tend to be dumb because they can't see the big picture, and too often think that the solution to the problem only falls within their narrow expertise. I've met people like that. Heck, I've worked with people like that. They will often actually know the solution. But a more well-rounded person is more likely to find 5 solutions, and thus will be able to choose the best of them.

 

Yeah, I'm going to also second not going to school for either game design or even IT.

If you want to get into the field a degree will not help you any. But you know what will? Take a few web development classes at your community college and build something. Build a mod for this game. Build a website. Skip the degree and earn a few certifications and build a portfolio of things you create and network online.

And finally, there is no future for programmers. It's a terrible field to get into because you will not be doing it forever. Programmers write all their code in their 20s and early 30s and are unemployable in thier 40s. At age 40, with years of experience, you will be competing with 20 something interns who will do the same job for less. At best you move on into management and work as a project lead and work on the business aspect of it all.

You'd be better off becoming a plumber.

There are very few fields out there that in my humble opinion are worth the thousands of dollars of debt people are achieving at our universities. It's a terrible shame what we are doing to our children. They go off to college and are promised the world. Then they spend 4-5 years earning a degree that offers them no better prospects than what they could have earned at a community college. You could probably count on 10 fingers the number of professions that actually require a 4 year degree and most of those require advanced degrees.

 

Programmers with competencies in their associated fields and the talent for writing maintainable software are, in fact, quite rare. Web development also rewards creative talent, you can't just rely on labor to manage it. Developers are not fungible. Speaking from experience, if I were replaced on the teams I've worked on the resulting product would definitely have been worse, given that programmers, especially those new to it, seem to prefer immediately fixing things to finding out what is going wrong, and are loathe to tear down old edifices when they are creaky and need to be rewritten (being aware of this made me able to point out where there would be problems before they occurred. Eventually people actually listened). Also, speaking from experience again, for any sufficiently complex piece of software, changing the makeup of the team takes long. Depending on where you are this may not be an issue, but for many industries the software might be next to useless (and even worse than useless, life threatening) if poorly engineered and there is definitely a role for educated, experienced people in there.

I recommend against going to community college to learn to program though. They teach you how to program, which is not very useful. Learning programming languages is very easy, you can do it in a couple of days, and competency takes years regardless of whether or not you went to school (and a lot of reading of research papers, blog posts, stories etc). Much better to study something like computer science, physics, or mathematics instead that teach you more general principles and ways of breaking down problems into smaller ones.

 

I have to ask though, do you really feel that $30-$60k in student loans is justified for simply teaching an individual "general principles and ways of breaking down problems" considering that a degree is often not required for these positions? Such skills are just as easily picked up as programming skills.

And if you consider that time is also a large part of the cost of a degree, you also give up 2 years of salary and work experience over going to a community college and heading right into the work force.

Personally, if I were to do it again I'd have joined the military right out of school. Picking up the security clearance would have been more beneficial to my career in IT than sitting in academia for 6 years to earn an advanced degree.

 

Speaking as a programmer/systems analyst, this is not true. It may be true for some people who have reached their potential, but most people keep getting better.

I went from programming into systems analysis, with programmers working under me. I had some young programmers working under me, one or two of them could be considered 'brilliant'. But the smartest of them lacked the experience to make them careful, to look at the big picture, to not panic when things went bad, and so on. Then again, I was not doing game programming, but business programming. I was the 'guru' where I worked in that people would line up outside my cubicle waiting for me to arrive in the morning, so that I could answer their questions or help them work out whatever problem they were having (Geez, some of them couldn't wait for me to actually get a cup of coffee). I remember coming in late one morning and at least a half-dozen people were waiting for me with questions or requests for help. Some days, most of my time was spent helping other people with THEIR jobs. But then again, that was a big reason why I was hired in the first place, so it didn't really make my bosses upset (I always got my own work done on schedule anyway).

/edit btw, I didn't have a computer education -- I graduated with an engineering degree. I did take a programming class in college, as well as a digital electronics class and a microprocessor class. But I was mostly self-taught when it came to computers

 

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I may not have years of experience under my belt or anything but nearly every job that exists has potential to utilize someone with programming skills.

Additionally, the way I see it most companies, if someone has proven to be a useful asset to the company then they are going to stay around despite how old they are. Truth is, if a 70 year old person is just as capable, and fast at programming as the 20 year old and has been in the company for a while. Chances are that 70 year old will stick around a bit longer until their skills are lacking.(slightly extreme hypothetical example but it gets the point across haha)

I'm also fairly decent with accounting, going on my third year studying it so that would help broaden my jobs. I could apply as a programming accountant and if the checkbooks balance then I would have a job for quite some time.
But honestly I don't like the accounting field. It bores me. It isn't hard or anything, however it is very repetitive and I lack a sense of accomplishment while doing it. It's mainly something I could stick on a resume to make it look shiny

 

So it doesn't look like you are really that interested in being a writer, but I just want to echo some of what Lorr said. Becoming a published author is very, very difficult and for the majority of them it doesn't pay well at all. There are the few 'superstars' of certain fields of fiction that are wealthy to fabulously rich, but you have to understand that those are the NBA pro basketball players of the writing world. You probably aren't going to end up there, even if you are an amazing writer.

The average successful writer spends more time writing and selling the book once it is written (read: things like promoting) than a person working a full time 8-5 job. The average writer spends multiple years with likely 20+ rewrites of their first novel trying to break into the field. That is a large commitment in the meantime. (This is because if you're someone like Brandon Sanderson who has made a name for himself, he can publish kinda-crappy material and yet still make money for the publishing company, while you as the new completely unknown writer will struggle to sell your book, even if it's fantastic - so it HAS to be fantastic... or very stereotyped; do you like writing about teenage vampires?)

If you do want to get into writing, connections are the single most important thing you can ever have. It doesn't matter how good you are if you don't know the people who will give you the time of day. As such if you did get into this field, you would definitely want to be attending writers conferences to 'make friends' with everyone you could. Also it is pretty important to learn to be flexible with your expectations of what you would be doing with your writing career. You might get an opportunity to go into something like writing for a television show rather than writing your dream fantasy novel, and if you want to eat, you'd have to accept that the opportunity infront of you is the one you need to take.

Anyways, here is hoping you find a great college and enjoy what you get into! But remember that the first thing you pick doesn't HAVE to be where you stay. If you find something you like more, you can always choose to pursue that instead!

EDIT: Hopefully I haven't scared you away from wanting to become a writer if that is really what you decide you wan though! There are too many people trying to become the next J.K. Rowling without understanding what they are getting into. But, if you are grounded in reality, you can make a successful life at it (if you're good at least!)

 

As far as writing is concerned, what generally happens is that a person takes up writing on the side, while actually making money at a 'real job'. That's probably the best way to go about it, since it's such a risky venture. Nearly all the writers that I know of, started out as something else entirely, (some were journalists, which is a kind of writing which has been dying out, but most were not). And within the field of science fiction, most famous writers still retain other jobs even after winning awards for their writing.

The author of one of my all-time favorite novels, "Mission of Gravity", Hal Clement (real name was Harry Stubbs) was still a High School teacher when I met him at an SF convention just a few years ago.