2H-Weapon Style

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Malignant, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. Malignant

    Malignant Member

    I noticed there is no 2H-weapons in this game so here's a suggestion

    add 2H-Weapon Style skill , similar to the dual wielding.
    no need to add weapons that take two hands.. just make it check that one hand is empty to get the skill bonuses
    and a check that there is no shield involved... and yes with this you can 2h-wield anything.. even daggers

    skill bonuses could be damage multipliers and others like Melee power , Block.
    4 skill ranks.. each give some bonuses and an additional + .25 damage multiplier
    so rank 1 is +1.25, rank 2 is +1.5, rank 3 is +1.75 and final rank +2.0 multiplier

    while it may be less efficient than having two weapons / weapon or shield since you only get item bonuses from one item some tweaking might be needed... though just having one epic weapon dealing double damage or more should make people try it out.
  2. satoru

    satoru Member

    An interesting thought. I think it would have to increase burliness per skill level as well as a stat bonus, which should give you more HP and physical damage.

    The main problem is that item stat bonuses on items are almost required to finish the game. I'm not sure how you could compensate for the loss of a stat item with a corresponding bonus. Even 2x damage is not much different than a dual wield build.

    One way might be to have an new item 'hilts'. They'd work like orbs do for mages, but intead confer damage bonuses and would work with the 2H skill.
  3. Desi

    Desi Member

    Or you make a Handle Wrap item that goes into the second weapon slot and enchant that. Something like that.
  4. eragfred

    eragfred Member

    There is a 2h-weapons skill picture in Dungeons Of Dredmor files. Lets hope it will be made.
  5. 123stw

    123stw Member

    I just can't see 2h being better than dual wield at this point. It's most likely not going to out-damage, out-defense, or out-bonus a dual wielder. Dual wield also takes no skill points to work. So a 2H skill tree will need something REALLY special to justify all those shortcoming.
  6. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    Well if 2h was made a skill, it could give some good bonuses to compensate for having no equipment on there. Give it some good procs (stun%, crippling wound, bleeding out, knockback, etc.) along with a good active skill, and people might not miss that extra equipment slot.
  7. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    Remember that Dual-wielding is also all about counter attacks as well. We just don't notice because it's bugged. Two-handed would likely emphasize a different stat.
  8. pauyasfyla

    pauyasfyla Member

    It could go Demon's Souls-style and be able to two hand any weapon for a damage bonus, helpful for those without a weapon mastery.
  9. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    Well, we did have the 2h weapon skill in earlier betas and it functioned to enhance the "brute force fighter" theme versus the "dextrous fighter" theme (however weak) of dual wield, but it was just kinda boring. Leaving a hand slot empty forces the player to use fewer items in a game that's all about finding and using interesting items. It goes against some of the core points of Dredmor's appeal.

    If we were to make it work it would indeed be much as you guys suggest with a good beefy stat bonus and some hefty triggered effects. I just don't know that it'd be very interesting with that ground already covered by other basic warrior skills. And indeed it wasn't interesting enough to not get cut when we were doing a round of skill cuts in early beta.
    Exile likes this.
  10. pauyasfyla

    pauyasfyla Member

    That's true. The more interesting in this game dramatically change how it plays--Golemancy and Vampirism come to mind. The less interesting ones (stat boosting) like Deadshot and Perception just don't offer the same kind of variety.
  11. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    @pauyasfyla I agree. That sort of thing irks me on a lot of other games, especially with anything roguelike. For example, Elona - You can pick a lot of different races and classes, but the only two races that make any difference later in the game are fairy and mutant (classes don't make any difference at all). The more that different skills feel, the better. Partially why I like taking vampirism often, and am anxious to play a crossbowman in 1.04.
  12. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    I personally would love to combine two-handed with unarmed combat.
  13. pauyasfyla

    pauyasfyla Member

    Plus 3 points of kicking!
  14. Bronze

    Bronze Member

    Two handed could add passive buffs to Burliness & Melee power. It would be cool if it had procs like a debuff to enemy Armor Absorption or allow crushing damage to bypass enemy armor. This would definately be a way to boost damage output on unarmed.

    You could make it more interesting by giving it Melee AOE abilities, like a "Massive Swing" that could hit enemies in a one square radious full 360. Could make it so that if it hits, 1st enemy at 100% damage and then decrease damage as it goes. AOE melee attacks that allowed you to fight your way out of being surrounded would be enough to make it interesting.

    Two handed shouldn't have knock back, we have procs for that on other skills.
  15. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    The only problem with AoE is that other weapon abilities provide AoE already, and axe has that specific full 360 one-square AoE. I think the devs are right that most ideas are already implemented in other abilities.

    I think I would probably just give a two-handed skill to the Axe tree. Axes need something to make them unique, and they're already the most "brutish" of the weapons already.
  16. Bronze

    Bronze Member

    Oh yeah forgot about the axe AOE. I never use Axe, but I have read others on this forum talking about how Axe is the worst melee tree. I could get behind this idea.
  17. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    Yeah, I wouldn't give 2h an AoE skill because weapons already come with them... plus 2h makes me think 'big damage to one guy'. I like the idea of it adding piercing damage, though. That way your 2h guy will bypass armor, but do less damage than dual wielding (but dual wielders will get more of their damage absorbed). Knockback would fit, if it weren't for maces (and unarmed?) having it. Stunning works well too (as an active ability... maybe not so much as a proc). Maybe an active skill that increases damage but lowers defenses (either a buff/debuff, or an attack that leaves a short duration debuff).
  18. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    ^ Assassination is already about stunning, and not having a shield can already count as losing out on some defenses. Having a whole skill tree for two-handed would very likely be redundant even if certain abilities work in different ways.

    By giving a 2handed-skill to Axes though, you help give Axes themselves a lot more flavor. Just having a two-handed skill would make Axes encourage a shieldless playstyle, affecting how you choose your skills and equipment if you choose to use axes, and since the damage values of axes don't go as high as other weapons, a straight up damage boost would help it out including the possibility of piercing damage.

    It would also free up a skill tree upon selection, allowing you to choose another skill in its place.
  19. fishofmuu

    fishofmuu Member

    But if you add a 2h to the axe skill line, it will discourage dual wielding axes.
  20. KittenMaster

    KittenMaster Member

    Maybe, but there are still plenty of other weapons that are good for dual-wielding, and there would be a weapon that is more appealing if you choose not to use dual-wielding.