Tropes of Women in video games. How does Dredmor stand up?

Discussion in 'Discussions' started by Ruigi, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. Ruigi

    Ruigi Will Mod for Digglebucks

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games

    I feel like this project would catch the attention of Gaslamp Staff because of their commitment to the just portrayal of females in their games.

    I noticed that there were a few videos they planned on making with the following themes.

    Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
    Man with Boobs - Video #10
    Positive Female Characters! - Video #11

    I wonder how the author would view Dredmor. Is the female hero a "Mrs. Male Character"? A "Man with Boobs" if you will? Is this a fair criticism of Dredmor? or should we consider the Female hero a "Positive Female Character". I'm sure there are arguments to be made for each of these points, and I'm curious how Dredmor would face the critics.

    I would like to note that all of Gaslamp is male and that they should probably hire a gender consultant for the portrayal of women in future games.
     
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  2. mining

    mining Member

    The female character is an eyebrows with boobs, not a man with boobs, silly.
     
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  3. Ruigi

    Ruigi Will Mod for Digglebucks

    part 1 of this series is out, by the way.

     
  4. Since there's only really an aesthetic difference between the male and female characters in Dredmor, I don't see any problem with this. The player characters get basically no character or personality at all, let alone to distinguish them. They don't differ in terms of stats either, and Gaslamp didn't try to make either character particularly sexy. So really, I'm not seeing this as an issue.
     
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  5. mining

    mining Member

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Ruigi

    Ruigi Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I would like to take this moment to affirm that my advice for hiring a gender consultant was made with tongue in cheek but should underscore the dominance of men in the computer game development industry.
     
  7. Daynab

    Daynab Community Moderator Staff Member

    Disclaimer: this isn't a word from Gaslamp, just my personal opinion. Maybe they'll post their own later.

    I'm not really sure where Dredmor's character really fits anywhere since it's, well, blank. It essentially is just... you. ("Unfortunately that hero is you.") It has no personality or dialogue, in my opinion. It doesn't even have a background.

    Anyhow, gender equality and good portrayal of women in media is important to me and I know to others here as well.

    PS: looking forward to the next videos, I enjoyed the first one a lot.
     
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  8. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    Here's what I think -- gender depiction in games can only be judged on a statistical basis, not on an individual basis. If we were judging "Goodfellas" on its depiction of Italian Americans, it wouldn't be fair because people like that actually exist (it's based on a true story). However, if you were to take a step back and notice that Italians are predominantly depicted one way or the other then yes, you have a case. One story about a kidnapped princess and a princely hero is not a reason to get angry. But if that's a predominant story, then yes, that's a problem (and not just for gender bias reasons either -- it's just tiresome).

    To say that women have to be depicted one way and not another is just as bad as the reverse. There should be room for all kinds of heroes, of all genders and all kinds of people who need help (because in reality, we all do need help in life at some time or another. Sometimes it's just help doing our taxes, or it can be help escaping from an evil wizard (not that I've experienced the latter lol).
     
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  9. Wolg

    Wolg Member

    Nicholas' "Congratulations, You Died!" presentation has an audience question about the female would-be Dredmor-slayer towards the end. From that, I'd think of both heroes as an archetype where gender is "skinned on".

    However, there is exactly one reason why I haven't recommended the game to a female friend who I think would otherwise love some red-headed monster stomping, and it can be summed up in precisely one word: Thrusties.
     
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  10. Haldurson

    Haldurson Member

    First of all, you are assuming that all Thrusties are male, and from a biological standpoint, I doubt that would be true -- possible but unlikely. You are making several assumptions there. Remember that they are thrusting at thin air, so reproduction is obviously not the point of that motion. I think they are just strutting their stuff, whether that stuff is male or female, we'll never know for sure.
     
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  11. mining

    mining Member

    It's like both hyenas and amazonian bumblebeepeople.
     
  12. Ruigi

    Ruigi Will Mod for Digglebucks

    I showed this game to my mother and she loved killing the thrusties.
     
  13. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    [​IMG]

    I think Dredmor doesn't stand up whilst, at the same time, doing so. There's nothing about it that is particularly... anything? You play as a bloke or a much more awesome lady with much more awesome hair, and that's about it. The game doesn't really react to you at all. I think it works well.

    It's more the lack of (non-sexualised) women in dudebro shooters that's an issue, in my opinion. And 'sexy' armour.
     
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  14. mining

    mining Member

    The chainmail bikini is a perfectly legitimate expression of "Anything a man can do, a woman can do better." Including protecting her with scant armor. *cough*. *cough*.
     
  15. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

  16. mining

    mining Member

    They don't stand a chance, she's intentionally handicapping herself to make it a fairer fight.
     
  17. Ruigi

    Ruigi Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Am I the only one who got annoyed by the transformation of Ashley Williams from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 3?

    [​IMG]
    This is a female soldier, this is a real person, who is judged based on her personality, not her looks. I supposed you could complain about the color of her armor but that's much ado about nothing since this is just her default outfit and it changes relatively quickly.

    [​IMG]
    This is a glam model who obviously got a botox injection in the lips. I could not bring myself to continue shepard's romance. This is offensive. Seriously, was EA thinking "We need to sex up Ashley for the male 16-23 demographic if we want to sell more games"??? what a load of BS.
     
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  18. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    You overlooked the massive boob job?

    As for ME1, a lot of it comes from BioWare cutting about six billion corners. In later games we saw a bit more diversity in body shapes, facial types, etc. Yet Shepard still had the broken One Size Fits All body and looked completely stupid for it.
     
  19. mining

    mining Member

    I'd wager its more the fact that a decidedly biased majority of people in game modelling and design are males who like both boobs and sexy, and will happily produce games with that.
     
  20. Loerwyn

    Loerwyn Member

    But there's boobs & sexy and there's Boobs & Sexy.

    BioWare have absolutely no tact with it. At all. Did you do the scenes where Ash was in hospital? Her vacuum-packed mega-breasts dominated the camera.

    Triss in The Witcher 2, however? She had boobs (big boobs), she was sexy, but it never really came into it until certain scenes. And even then it was less "omg look triss is sexy" in an exploitative way, it seemed more natural and - well - tasteful than BioWare's boob armours, boob shots and, well, boobs.
     
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