The Super Serious Wandlore overhaul thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Ruigi, May 3, 2012.

  1. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    That would be a lot of fun, especially now that there are filters in place in crafting, so you don't have to hunt through the recipes as much.
     
  2. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    Sounds like you will be adding more stat variety to modifier based spells? (like sneakiness adding damage to shiv).
    I love those kind of changes and hope to see much more of them :) Although, don't take too much time out of odin development!
     
  3. Kaidelong

    Kaidelong Member

    Exp2 RC4 seems to have saved wand lore from uselessness. Is it overpowered now instead perhaps? I'm suspicious of the fact that meat wands have unlimited supply, but do not deplete your mana.

    Mmm... maybe if the meatwand required you to be adjacent?
     
  4. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Are you saying you think
    *shades*
    your meatwand is too strong?
    YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

    I'm not so much worried about the effectively unlimited meatwand supply as I am with their basically bottomless HP and lutefisk potential. The rest of the wands, however, are awesome.
     
    Essence likes this.
  5. Kaidelong

    Kaidelong Member

    In this sense it isn't any different from say, the little red cookbook. It does give reliable, infinite ranged damage though, which I am not sure is actually broken but nothing else in the game really does. Perhaps wand lore can be special in this way.
     
  6. mining

    mining Member

    For reference: I had over 2k worth of meat to be fisked on floor 2.
     
  7. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Yes it is. Little Red Cookbook only procs 10% of the time. Meatwand always makes meat.
     
  8. Wootah

    Wootah Member

    Instead of Wands scaling off of magic power alone. Is it possible to have it scale off of multiple stats added together?

    I mean what if a wand did damage like 5:dmg_transmutative: + :dmg_transmutative: (.1:savvy: + .1:caddishness: +.1:stubborness:+ 2:wand_burn:)
    which is 1.5*Character level + 2*Wandlore Level. (since the sum of Savvy+Cad+Stubborn = 5 no matter what type of skill you put your points in)
     
  9. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    AFAIK, wands scale off wandcrafting now?
     
  10. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    I've changed some -- most? -- of them to scale off new wand-specific spells that scale to the wandcrafting stat.
     
  11. dbaumgart

    dbaumgart Art Director Staff Member

    I'm putting salt (rather than saltpetre) in as a requirement for crafting the meatwand. *Something* has to slow the endless flow of meat.
     
  12. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    ...sounds like expansion 3 to me.
     
  13. Kaidelong

    Kaidelong Member

    This means wands found in the dungeon have these properties:
    • If you don't have wandcrafting, they are less effective
    • They do not suffer from armor maluses the way spells do
    • They do not suffer from debuffs to sagacity and magic power
    Are you sure this is what you want? I can sort of understand the reasoning, but the first point doesn't seem like it was what was intended neccessarily.
     
    r_b_bergstrom likes this.
  14. Essence

    Essence Will Mod for Digglebucks

    OTOH, it makes Wandcrafting a more valuable skill to have -- that's a good thing, right?
     
    mining likes this.
  15. FaxCelestis

    FaxCelestis Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Don't think of it as it being "they're weaker without wandcrafting". Think of it as "having wandcrafting makes them more powerful."
     
    Essence likes this.
  16. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    As long as the base effect is strong, and wand crafting just makes them a little stronger, that's a good thing.

    But if you need at least a couple levels of wandcrafting to make it ever worth your time to use a wand, that would be a shame.

    Haven't looked at the specific numbers yet, so I'm not sure where most of these fall on that spectrum. There's definitely room for a few that require wandcrafting to be worth it by mid game, but there should hopefully be some that work reasonably well (on more than just the first floor or two) without wandcrafting.

    Obviously, the non-damaging wands will still be just as good or bad as always regardless of wandcrafting levels.
     
  17. Kaidelong

    Kaidelong Member

    This is not at all obvious. However with the exception of the coral wand, it is true. In the case of wands like the Tesla Wand, Bony Wand, or the Zodiacal Wand, they do not scale at all, non-damaging or otherwise.

    This is another implication to keep in mind, that heavily armored warriors will be able to craft coral wands as an effective way to heal.

    Note that I am not arguing against this, I just want to be clear that a change of this magnitude is actually what is intended.
     
    r_b_bergstrom likes this.
  18. r_b_bergstrom

    r_b_bergstrom Will Mod for Digglebucks

    Did coral wands scale to :magic_power: and I just never noticed? I'd assumed the heal per turn was a flat rate, not unlike a potion of healing. Dang, that misunderstanding is probably responsible for at least a couple character deaths.

    Anyhow, I think Kaidelong raises some very good points here.

    The ideal level for a coral wand's combo of healing potential and ease of crafting is to make it roughly comparable to Healing Potions. If it heals much more, then it should use a much less common reagent. If it heals a little bit more but over time instead of instantly, then it can be as easy as aqua vitae + rust. Healing potions have been available to warriors all along, but you don't see too many warrior alchemist builds.

    I really wish there were a Mac version of the DLC Beta so I could see how this stuff actually plays out. Sometimes what looks good (or really bad) on paper isn't quite the same as the in-game reality once all the ripple effects, inventory rates and RNG capriciousness get applied.
     
  19. Kaidelong

    Kaidelong Member

    On the same theme, perhaps trap damage should scale to :trap_level: instead of :magic_power:. This actually makes a lot of sense to me, as tinkers will tend to forego some heavy armor options anyway and part of what they can do with their tinkering skill is make themselves heavy armor. It would also make mages less squishy due to the fact that enemy traps scale to player skills.

    Also whether or not coral wands scale to :magic_power: depends if they invoke the healing spell from Fleshknit or if they did something else. It is very possible that they do not in fact scale. I did not check that. I should have rephrased "with the possible exception of the coral wand".
     
  20. Can't you just copy the RC files to your Dredmor folder?