I'm trying out a no-melee character. I'm using wands & crossbows mostly. It's good fun, but I find myself constantly wishing I had more basic arrows. I love hording / managing my special arrow inventory, but more often than not all I need is another wooden bolt or two to finish things off. When I play a throwing character I always have some softballs handy - because they are so ubiquitous in vending machines. My throw characters are ALWAYS stocked. Of course, my throw characters always look to pump , so they do plenty of melee as well. Anyway, I occured to me that I would LOVE to have the first archery skill grant a few wooden bolts - the same way Burglary gets lockpicks. Or maybe give a % chance to spawn one when you kill an enemy, or whatever. I'd love to just have more ammo! I read that Gaslamp decided to change the lockpick skill, because it was too easy to amass thousands of lockpicks / cube them / whatever. Not sure I see a real problem there, but if that's so then I assume allowing crossbow users to gain hundreds of free bolts over a game might run into similar objections. Still - I want it!
Take a look at this and see if it helps at all. http://community.gaslampgames.com/threads/alpha-release-the-crossbowverhaul.3645/
Are you using tinkering? You can craft "wooden bolts" out of plastic (they deal 1 crushing instead of 2, but that's probably never relevant), even with a tinkering skill of 0.
Actually, you craft "plastic bolts" out of plastic. As far as I know, only my mod Needful Things allows you to craft "wooden bolts" with three different recipes.
... whoops, I meant to say that plastic bolts are faux wooden bolts - guess that got dropped from the actual post.
Tinkering and Perception are a must for ranged users. Perception keeps you in ingots to make arrows with, as well as other miscellaneous junk you can sell to Brax and buy out the contents of vending machines with. The higher your tinkering, the better quality of arrows you get. You get more of them as well.
Hmmm - I don't think I was very clear in my original post. Sorry. I didn't mean that I needed more ammo/was running short of ammo for my crossbow. Rather, my point was that the crossbow skill tree is really lame, and hardly worth taking - and giving a skill that allowed me to get a few crappy bolts on demand would make it much more attractive. So, I don't mean to imply that bolts are in short supply. (They are, of course, but scarce resources are a key part of Roguelikes). Rather, I meant to suggest that giving the Crossbow skill some bolt-generating ability would be a cool thing.
This would make Crossbows much more appealing to me as well. If bolts in general were more effective it'd be one thing, but I don't think it'd be too game breaking to allow the player sustainable basic ammunition. Then again, one could look at the ranged weapons and say the crossbow differs from throwing in that you need to be more careful with your ammo. But then, what exactly is the reward for that? Wooden bolts are just about as cruddy as softballs, and scale off your stats, so...
Crossbow bolts are pretty effective for every character - taking the crossbow skill gives you better % chance to keep your ammo after a shot, but otherwise it's just 6 and 6 - for an investment of 4 skill points. That's super unappealing. Using a Crossbow = Good for everyone. Crossbow Skill Tree = Makes crossbow bolts only a tiny bit better - so not really ever worth taking.
Oh, really? I guess I've been missing out on something, because I don't ever use crossbows unless I spec for it. I guess Crossbows are overall kind of unappealing to me, though I can see why anyone would have it along even without the skill. Perhaps we should dis-incentivize using crossbows without the appropiate skill? Oh, and don't forget those debuffs from the skill tree. Those are pretty great, at least I know Fleshbore is.
The problem with giving a skill tree an item-spawning ability lies in the fact that it would give people who make thousands of lutefusk more items to skål. But then again, with the new expansion coming out, I'm pretty sure that "being able to make infinite quantities of stuff given a lot of time" kind of skills won't be that much of an issue any longer. So whatever.
Nikolai- it's definitely worth playing around with crossbows! With a good artifact bow, even sucky bolts can be very effective. (And it's clear that the really important skill for an archer is tinkering, so that you can make ingeniously scythed bolts.) I like Mr_Strange's idea. I don't really see lutefisk-fodder as a real problem. If it were, then remove or alter Lucky Pick! That said, it wouldn't be enough, IMO, to make the crossbow tree worth taking. I've not found a lack of ammo to be too bad in the early game (though I may just have been lucky.) I'd rather see some additional stat bonuses, or buffing the side effects, or adding some charged attacks. Maybe turn the knockback skill at level 2 into a charged attack with a quick recharge? Or an attack that can pierce multiple opponents?
A good bow with several Krongings and a Krong Proc of some sort can easily do 40-50 damage with a wooden bolt. *Edit* I said 70. Wrong. That would be a tremendously potent bow.
Here is the crossbow tree I'd like to see: Base ammo recovery rate (for non-crossbow skill users) : 5% 1 - , 5, 2. Ammo recovery rate: 15%. You've spent time learning how to use a crossbow. Accuracy, damage, and ammo recovery rate are increased. 2 - , 2. Passive Skill: rapid aiming. When you fire your crossbow, you have a 40% chance of gaining a buff effect which lasts for only the next turn. This buff adds 5 10 and knockback to your ranged attacks. 3 - 2, 2. Ammo recovery rate: 30%. Active skill - whittle bolts. Creates 6 wooden bolts. Cooldown 50. 4 - 2, 10, 2. Adds fleshbore to crossbow attacks. You've learned to see exactly where each foe's weakness lies, and your ability to strike precisely is unmatched. 5 - 3, 10, 4, 10. You move like lightning & strike like thunder. You can even reflexively shoot projectiles out of the air. This gives each skill level strong appeal to certain builds - without making anything a "must take" for all builds. The tinkering, vision, critical, and magic reflect synergize really well with certain strategies. Getting knockback in a way which allows you to use it strategically is fun. Emphasizing the ammo recovery rate is important, because that's a huge source of ammo for crossbow-focused characters.
I like it! Especially 2., as that gives some interesting gameplay; encouraging sustained fire. I think it'd be even better as an activateable so you could choose when to pump out sustained damage. It'd have a long cooldown as well.
Why not give the player points in tinkering when they level up crossbows? 1-3 for the whole skill tree? Or, like Clockwork Knight, you could give us a recipe on level up.
A point or two of tinkering might be alright but I don't really like the idea. Crafting skills are finally starting to become truly desirable. Spreading the around dilutes the usefulness of those trees significantly and should done with great care. Though I like the idea of a couple points across the tree better than a spammable skill for free bolts. At least attrition rules still apply to tinkering, since you need reagents. Ultimately I think there must be a better way to make the crossbow tree more appealing, perhaps buffs in line with what the melee trees received. Those trees are much more formidable since the last patch.
ahhh im sorry, i didnt see your wrench. it snuck in there. This is kind of Diablo 2, but what about a skill that lets you fire multiple bolts in one turn? That would change things up and give it a distinct advantage that throwing does not. You could replace Crossbow Blast with it, since it doesnt make much sense to hit someone with a tiny object and knock them back Or similarly, a skill that fires a spread of bolts across 3 tiles in front of you. It would make AOE bolts more interesting.
Depends on if it consumes the bolts or not. I think it'd be a lot more appealing if it only consumed one, and then make it so only one bolt can possibly be dropped. That said, I want Crossbow Blast to stay. I'd be fine with it being changed to an activateable, though. In fact, what about changing most/all the crossbow debuffs into actives? This could either replace the % ones, or reduce the percentages to compensate.
