Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Loerwyn, Sep 27, 2012.
I still think it would be funny to give them a pointy stick.
How about each item gives you +1 wand entropy skill thing.
How about a "pointy stick" (with emphasis on "pointy") with 1 crushing damage, and the rest of items not giving anything at all?
Because using a deprecated stat is a really bad idea in the long run (because they might want to get rid of it someday, and then the bonuses will either become relevant via changing to different ones or break the game horribly and make it explode).
what if you got a nice little starting screen to pick what you want (after having it initially narrowed down by skill choices)?
Why did you give emphasis on "pointy" and then assign it crushing damage? Shouldn't it be piercing or slashing?
That's where the joke lies. Name it "pointy stick", give it a flavour text about how pointy and/or sharp it is, and then give it 1 crushing damage. Players are guaranteed to feel scammed.
And then use it as a crafting ingredient for:
"Oh, you hold on to THAT end..."
Requires 7 wandlore, but is unlocked from the start of the game.
Personally, the only problem I have with starting items is that the armor from armor mastery and the fedora are too good compared to a lot of what you find (depending on character, I'll find myself wearing the fedora several levels deep just because of the little bit of counter it gives).
I do like the idea of more skills granting a unique and relevant (but not particularly powerful) starting item.
The fedora is a pretty unique item in the game, and only archaeology gives you it.
But the armor from armor mastery isn't unique, it's one of the low tier armors. You can find better with a little of luck even on the first floor.
Yeah, definitely. I actually "downgraded" slightly to a Fancy Leather Hauberk from the Iron Breastplate because it was all positive stats with no negative ones (whereas the Iron Breastplate has some negative stats).
Sure, if you're lucky you can find better armor on the first floor. If you're lucky, you can find a superb item in a fountain too. The point is that the armor pretty much halves the damage you take from first floor monsters (and that's not counting the effects the skill itself can add). The issue is not that the armor can be used forever, it's that it makes such a huge difference in the beginning.
It's a subjective thing, but when I enter a dungeon virtually naked and manage to survive long enough to gain a couple of levels and the power that comes with them, there's a sense of accomplishment. The easier that task is, the less the sense of accomplishment. If you're someone who just likes to Leroy Jenkins your way through the entire game, I'm sure (though I haven't checked) there are mods that give you access to mid-game or end-game items right off the bat.
Making the game more interesting, giving it more flavor - that's great. Just making it easier, that's not so good.
The point of skill trees is to give you power. Some give you power at level 1 - the armor trees are like that. Others have a more... delayed payoff. Mathemagic is more like that. Pick the ones you like to play with, and use them.
I agree. We're not talking about the curve of if and when a skill grants a character power though. We're talking about a free piece of starting kit that makes things far easier in the beginning. Thanks to the RNG, the crafting skills can sometimes give you powerful items off the bat, but that's just a chance thing. Plus those powerful items are consumables. Every other skill but Archaeology and Arms Mastery that gives an item gives one that is pretty much obsolete as soon as you find any other item of the type. Swords doesn't grant a razor sword, it grants the crappiest sword in the game. Likewise all the other starting items granted by skills.
At best, Arms Mastery should grant an armor that gives the character 1 , 1, and 1.
But, really, when you think about it - melée is still kinda wobbly. Melée characters don't have the very powerful spells and attacks of magic classes, nor the flexibility of hybrids. That armour piece is probably one of the few things that makes them even half-way viable on floor one.
I certainly agree that a pure melee character doesn't have the breadth of options that a hybrid does (a first level pure mage doesn't have that many options either, IMO). That said, you get 6 and 5 just for the skill. 3, 4, and 1 in addition to that is pretty huge.
Reducing damage from most 1 floor creatures from 4 or 5 per attack to 1 or 2 is a massive difference. Sure, if you open the first door and encounter a room full of enemies and/or Bee Arthur, Seigfried, or Toady, you're probably screwed with any character that doesn't have wandcrafting and luckily start with good wands. Aside from getting mobbed immediately, that armor pretty much guarantees survival if you don't play stupidly.
I don't like to call something overpowered because that's so subjective, but I really feel that any starting equipment should be exactly that - equipment that is essentially the worst of that type (though obviously, the worst armor doesn't fit the idea of an armor skill and that's why I mentioned earlier that it should have a point of ).
According to this Wiki, Thick Skin is bugged so you don't get the benefits you should. I don't know if that's been corrected.
I don't know either. I only play random characters so I haven't really paid attention to the actual effect of many of the skills' bonuses. I do know that when I run into that piece of armor lying on the floor somewhere early it's like turning on easy mode. This thread is really mental masturbation anyway. I'm just stating my opinion that starter equipment should be less effective than any other equipment of the same type you find through dungeon conquest.
Warrior characters are best on early levels, when brute force, defence stats and hp dominate.
You can basically oneshot every single monster on the first floor (aside from the bosses - those are a three-four shots to ko them) with werediggle lvl1, and with half of the levels being of rogue too. And this without a starting armor.
In every rpg the warrior is what kills early, and the wizard what's in late game.
If this dialogue makes you feel sick, you can just stop yourself, don't worry about us.
Just check on Dredmorpedia, it loads stuff from data files so it will list it as working if, and only if, it works. The one you referred to now is really outdated.
Most discussions on internet forums tend to be. But it doesn't mean they can't be pleasant, so don't give up.
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